Noize

iTrader: (24)

Cannonballer

iTrader: (3)

So does that mean you are saying the 50 trim isn't better than the 3071? If so please elaborate for a simpleton like myself because I am at a loss as to how you came to that conclusion.

Noize

iTrader: (24)

No, it means arguing with Ludikraut is like pissing into a head wind; I'm happy to tell you what I believe.

1. First, we don't have a comparison of a 50 trim (which is like saying "medium frame turbo", I need more specifics on it) to a 3071 (and his 3071 kit was completely different from mine to begin with) on a car with a healthy engine. Ludikraut's car is very far off the mark from where it should be, which makes it the absolute worst gauge to quantify what aftermarket turbocharger is better.

2. For him to come into this thread with a graph of a 3071 on a Dynojet that is making less than my 3071 on a Dyno Dynamics, and attempt to submit that to EvoM as compelling evidence that the "50 trim" is superior is preposterous. IIRC, his 3071 kit could barely tickle 315whp on the exact same dyno I'm using with a professional tune, and he has a dedicated header and a built engine that revs to 9k!

3. I made this thread to show how the 3071 is within 15whp Dyno Dynamics of a 3076 on pump and race fuel with less lag. Its pretty much the same graph as a 3076 phase shifted about 500rpm to the left. The 3076 will be faster up top, because it doesn't fall off as much.

4. The lag you see in the graph is because of the ramp rate set into the dyno for an Evo with a larger turbo for tuning accuracy. I too can load the car in 4th or 5th gear on the interstate at 3000rpm on pump gas and be at full boost well before 3500rpm.

5. Could some 50trim setup make more power than my Vishnu Stage 2 kit? Of course it is possible, why not? But I have no basis of comparison with a healthy car on the same dyno with the same engine management, so until I see a 50 trim with a piggyback or reflash (not a stand alone) surpass my curves on a DD/make over 385whp pump gas on a Dynojet and over 465whp with race gas, I'm not going to concede that my v550 w/ 3071 is inferior to one.


I didn't get huffy until Ludikraut brought his broken *** car that is making about 40whp Dynojet less than mine into this thread and started trying to discredit the effectiveness of a 3071. Get where I'm coming from? I'm sure the 50 trim can be a great kit. I've never had one on my car nor seen one on a Dyno Dynamics, so I had no need to compare it in this thread.

ez76

iTrader: (5)

This makes me psyched for my upcoming VS2 install. My race fuel will only be 100 octane, but I will be moving to HKS280 cams and the AMS VSR intake manifold. Between those and my AMS intercooler, I will no doubt be looking at more lag, but hopefully will recoup that loss with more midrange and top end. Also have a ported, coated header that I'm hoping balances out some of the lag.

Thanks for posting!

Ludikraut

iTrader: (17)

ez76, on my car the AMS VSR intake lost 200 rpm spoolup, the HKS 280s timed to +2/0 lost 100 rpm versus 272's. Not sure how much the IC affected things, nor how a ported/coated header would. Be advised, the VSR intake does not have provisions for the EGR valve - i.e. you'll have one more CEL to ignore. Good luck, I'm sure you'll like the end result.

l8r)

Ludikraut

iTrader: (17)

I really don't see how showing that my "broken ***" car made 335 whp with the 50 trim on a DD (and yes, it was 'broken', as in two bad valve guides) versus 315 on a DD with the 3071 last fall or how it is currently making over 400whp (DJ) on an incomplete tune changes the data of the back-to-back turbo testing.

Seth, I've met you in person and you seemed like a pretty reasonable guy, so why the hate? You're getting all bent out of shape because you somehow perceive my posts to be an attack on your car or perhaps you personally - neither of which is true. All I submitted were statements of fact based on MY results on MY car. I'm not here to tell you or anyone else what to purchase, I am simply submitting my data to help others make more educated decisions. But hey, what do I know, right?

l8r)

Noize

iTrader: (24)

I had an AMS IC with my TME, but ended up selling it, because I gained a little lag and it showed no dyno gains post tuning. Of course, it would've really shined more on the street on hot days like we're having now. With the upgraded turbo now, I regret selling it.


Did you opt for a 3071 or a 3076 with your VS2? Either way, I think you'll definitely be happy!

Noize

iTrader: (24)

I'm very glad for you that your car is fixed now!
For the OT fighting and defensiveness, I apologize. I think now that your car is up to snuff, the delta between the two turbos would've been a lot more informative. But it really doesn't matter if you're now making over 400whp on 93 octane, because that proves the kit and your motor are both doing very well!

Until the bolded part in your above post, I had never heard specifically what was wrong with your car, and my point the entire time has been that using an engine that is damaged is just not a good tool for measuring things; surely you can appreciate that?

About a year ago, I didn't have the boost gauge line that was tapped at the FPR fastened securely enough. It jumped off under full boost and the car leaned way out. The result? A slightly hairline cracked piston creating detonation at random spots above 5000rpm, causing me to jump onto the low octane safety map and a power curve with a shape that did not resemble what it did before.

Good luck in the future with your 50 trim AMS kit and post up new graphs now that your car is doing what it should.

Ludikraut

iTrader: (17)

Tuning is still in progress, although I've at least figured out, with the help of a few gurus, why my ECU was pulling timing.

l8r)

ez76

iTrader: (5)

3071 - hope so! Looking at a tune sometime in the next 2-3 weeks.

jj_008

iTrader: (8)

Both the GT3071 and 50 trim are going to produce roughly the same power with similar spool up since the inducers are almost the same. The one thing I really like about Vishnu's turbo kit, is the use of a true Garrett hotsde w/ the conical diffuser. I wish more turbo kits would use them.

Noize, is your GT3071 using a .60 A/R Comperssor housing?

Ted B

iTrader: (6)

FWIW, a glance at the compressor maps for both the 3071R and 50 trim appear to be remarkably similar where it counts, and both will reach choke flow in the 48-50 lb/min range. This being the case, I'd venture so far to say that given two identically prepared cars, one with a 3071R and 50 trim respectively, aside from static differences (BB vs. journal, compressor and/or exhaust housing differences), both will perform very similarly, and both are capable of virtually identical peak power numbers in the most common boost ranges.

WrX Kila

iTrader: (18)

I must agree 100% I also run the 3076r and could not be any happier. Everyone that has driven my car loves it, very streetable. I made 452whp 379tq on 29psi alky and pump on a flash. I will get the car retuned on 100% meth to see whats I get. After that 35r here I come.

shiv@vishnu

iTrader: (20)

We used 50 trim turbos back in the late 90s in our Impreza 2.5rs turbo kit. They were recommended by engineers at Garret because:

a) they were the best of the T3/T4 hybrids
b) HKS had a strangle hold on all GT ball bearing turbos (making them very expensive and hard to get)

The GT series were, in every conceivable way, superior the old T series turbo variants. 10-15 years of development in the highest levels of motorsports will certainly improve a product.

It's only been in the last several years that consumers have been able to get GT turbos from distributors other than HKS. This has brought GT turbos down into the affordable range. Of course, they are still $300-400 more expensive than equivalent T-series turbo. Compared to the T-series turbos, they are going to be more reliable and durable. They are also going to perform better, all things held equall. But they will always be more expensive and expensive to rebuild. This is and always will be the tradeoiff.

-shiv

EvoG8r

iTrader: (31)

The only way we can really show the differences in noize's car is if he had a 50 trim to swap in. 50 trim is a decent alternate turbo, but I really think the 3071 is a great turbo. That's my 2 cents.

Thanks for posting the results.