Buschur Racing dyno testing brake rotors?
Aug 3, 2006, 07:31 AM
#91
2 pc. No time frame. Just started arranging the project 2 days ago. Target weight is extremely light, under 10 pounds each. Will be great for street and light track use. Of course with it being this light it will not withstand extended long braking without warping. The idea is to get a super light rotor in the car that will stop the same as stock for day-to-day use and a guy that drive like I do. I am very easy on brakes.
Aug 3, 2006, 06:28 PM
#93
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Originally Posted by davidbuschur
Ahh, I see on the Eradispeed. The Baer's I have here are the two piece aluminum hat rotors.
Aug 3, 2006, 07:55 PM
#94
Originally Posted by davidbuschur
2 pc. No time frame. Just started arranging the project 2 days ago. Target weight is extremely light, under 10 pounds each. Will be great for street and light track use. Of course with it being this light it will not withstand extended long braking without warping. The idea is to get a super light rotor in the car that will stop the same as stock for day-to-day use and a guy that drive like I do. I am very easy on brakes.
Aug 3, 2006, 10:55 PM
#96
".... making fast cars and equiping them with "lite on brakes" is asking for a serious lawsuit."
You sound the like type of guy who is missing from a different brand of cars forum and car club. Perhaps the EVO is not for you.
It was never stated the lighter weight brakes were for track use. Only as a performance enhancing part for a street only car. But I guess if you need to stop from 130 plus on the street you will have other issues to worry about.
You sound the like type of guy who is missing from a different brand of cars forum and car club. Perhaps the EVO is not for you.
It was never stated the lighter weight brakes were for track use. Only as a performance enhancing part for a street only car. But I guess if you need to stop from 130 plus on the street you will have other issues to worry about.
Aug 4, 2006, 03:50 AM
#97
a fast car doesn't need brakes just on the track. buschur even builds dealership mitsus that are over 300bhp... you think it's safe running around with thin brakes just cuz HE is "easy on brakes".
the FACT of the matter is if ANYTHING i'm doing db a FAVOR by giving him this angle on what the product will be accepted as. nothing, especially since he is selling something that is SAFETY related, should be taken for granted or assumed.
at the very LEAST he should cya by saying for drag strip use ONLY.
and it's not just about stopping from 130-0. on the street you are met with EVERY driving condition. braking from 80-40 could be JUST as important and don't think that thin brake rotors can just be "up to the task" ESPECIALLY in an emergency situation.
when a product can be accessed all around the world through the internet you must be careful. in socal my brakes are ALWAYS hot when i turn the car off. it's just the weather and the environment plus the traffic conditions. not providing a sufficient rotor puts strain on the fluid the pads and the caliper. this is truth.
i don't doubt that there is good use for light brakes and i'm sure db will make 'em right but recommending that something like this POSSIBLY be run on the street is RISKY to say the LEAST.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lay off the personal attacks
-Zeus-
the FACT of the matter is if ANYTHING i'm doing db a FAVOR by giving him this angle on what the product will be accepted as. nothing, especially since he is selling something that is SAFETY related, should be taken for granted or assumed.
at the very LEAST he should cya by saying for drag strip use ONLY.
and it's not just about stopping from 130-0. on the street you are met with EVERY driving condition. braking from 80-40 could be JUST as important and don't think that thin brake rotors can just be "up to the task" ESPECIALLY in an emergency situation.
when a product can be accessed all around the world through the internet you must be careful. in socal my brakes are ALWAYS hot when i turn the car off. it's just the weather and the environment plus the traffic conditions. not providing a sufficient rotor puts strain on the fluid the pads and the caliper. this is truth.
i don't doubt that there is good use for light brakes and i'm sure db will make 'em right but recommending that something like this POSSIBLY be run on the street is RISKY to say the LEAST.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lay off the personal attacks
-Zeus-
Last edited by Zeus; Aug 4, 2006 at 06:51 AM.
Aug 4, 2006, 06:29 AM
#98
Originally Posted by trinydex
are you really dumb? a fast car doesn't need brakes just on the track. buschur even builds dealership mitsus that are over 300bhp... you think it's safe running around with thin brakes just cuz HE is "easy on brakes" you're quite an idiot.
and you know what, you're such an idiot i gotta come out and say some more stuff.
the FACT of the matter is if ANYTHING i'm doing db a FAVOR by giving him this angle on what the product will be accepted as. nothing, especially since he is selling something that is SAFETY related, should be taken for granted or assumed.
at the very LEAST he should cya by saying for drag strip use ONLY.
and it's not just about stopping from 130-0. on the street you are met with EVERY driving condition. braking from 80-40 could be JUST as important and don't think that thin brake rotors can just be "up to the task" ESPECIALLY in an emergency situation.
when a product can be accessed all around the world through the internet you must be careful. in socal my brakes are ALWAYS hot when i turn the car off. it's just the weather and the environment plus the traffic conditions. not providing a sufficient rotor puts strain on the fluid the pads and the caliper. this is truth.
i don't doubt that there is good use for light brakes and i'm sure db will make 'em right but recommending that something like this POSSIBLY be run on the street is RISKY to say the LEAST.
and you know what, you're such an idiot i gotta come out and say some more stuff.
the FACT of the matter is if ANYTHING i'm doing db a FAVOR by giving him this angle on what the product will be accepted as. nothing, especially since he is selling something that is SAFETY related, should be taken for granted or assumed.
at the very LEAST he should cya by saying for drag strip use ONLY.
and it's not just about stopping from 130-0. on the street you are met with EVERY driving condition. braking from 80-40 could be JUST as important and don't think that thin brake rotors can just be "up to the task" ESPECIALLY in an emergency situation.
when a product can be accessed all around the world through the internet you must be careful. in socal my brakes are ALWAYS hot when i turn the car off. it's just the weather and the environment plus the traffic conditions. not providing a sufficient rotor puts strain on the fluid the pads and the caliper. this is truth.
i don't doubt that there is good use for light brakes and i'm sure db will make 'em right but recommending that something like this POSSIBLY be run on the street is RISKY to say the LEAST.
So with your reasoning the 15-pound Baer brakes must not be as safe as the stock ones. Or the Wilwood SBC, also must be dangerous.
Even with a thinner or smaller diameter rotor with a smaller caliper, the brake system on the EVO will still be superior to 90% of the cars on the road. Hell, any 10" rotor 2-piston caliper setup has enough power lock the wheels.
Whatever BR comes out with will be more than suitable for daily driving. As already stated by David, the only thing you lose by going to a smaller, lighter rotor is ultimate heat dissipation. These units will not be suitable for Road Racing, Track Days, or HPDE's, etc. These units will be suitable for street use, drag racing, possibly autocross.
Why not wait to see the finished product before getting your panties in a bunch.
EVOlutionary
Aug 4, 2006, 07:08 AM
#99
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awesome, yet another GREAT thread on EvoM ruined by whiny a$$es having a pi$$ing contest.
"Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded"
And in the aftermath, you guys ruin an otherwise perfectly good thread.
"Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded"
And in the aftermath, you guys ruin an otherwise perfectly good thread.
Aug 4, 2006, 07:16 AM
#100
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i think we should take off the brakes and cut holes into the bottom of the car and use our feet(they are unsprung)
all kidding aside
dave.... what was the average difference in power from the stock rotors to the giros?
you posted the sheets, but i wouldnt mind knowing the exact differences.....
i would also like to see the differences on a lower powered car that many of us drive....
next time you do a break rotor change on a bolt-on and cam car; it would be great if you could do a before and after
thanks though, i never realized that changing weight like that could make what seems like a huge difference on power
all kidding aside
dave.... what was the average difference in power from the stock rotors to the giros?
you posted the sheets, but i wouldnt mind knowing the exact differences.....
i would also like to see the differences on a lower powered car that many of us drive....
next time you do a break rotor change on a bolt-on and cam car; it would be great if you could do a before and after
thanks though, i never realized that changing weight like that could make what seems like a huge difference on power
Aug 4, 2006, 11:40 AM
#101
Originally Posted by SaOrlando
i think we should take off the brakes and cut holes into the bottom of the car and use our feet(they are unsprung)
all kidding aside
dave.... what was the average difference in power from the stock rotors to the giros?
you posted the sheets, but i wouldnt mind knowing the exact differences.....
i would also like to see the differences on a lower powered car that many of us drive....
next time you do a break rotor change on a bolt-on and cam car; it would be great if you could do a before and after
thanks though, i never realized that changing weight like that could make what seems like a huge difference on power
all kidding aside
dave.... what was the average difference in power from the stock rotors to the giros?
you posted the sheets, but i wouldnt mind knowing the exact differences.....
i would also like to see the differences on a lower powered car that many of us drive....
next time you do a break rotor change on a bolt-on and cam car; it would be great if you could do a before and after
thanks though, i never realized that changing weight like that could make what seems like a huge difference on power
Sorry for the rant a little bit earlier, but it upsets me when someone bashes a product before it has even been released or even tested. Especially when the bashing is unfounded.
EVOlutionary
Aug 4, 2006, 01:44 PM
#102
Originally Posted by EVOlutionary
Well, actually, your argument is full of B.S.
So with your reasoning the 15-pound Baer brakes must not be as safe as the stock ones. Or the Wilwood SBC, also must be dangerous.
Even with a thinner or smaller diameter rotor with a smaller caliper, the brake system on the EVO will still be superior to 90% of the cars on the road. Hell, any 10" rotor 2-piston caliper setup has enough power lock the wheels.
Whatever BR comes out with will be more than suitable for daily driving. As already stated by David, the only thing you lose by going to a smaller, lighter rotor is ultimate heat dissipation. These units will not be suitable for Road Racing, Track Days, or HPDE's, etc. These units will be suitable for street use, drag racing, possibly autocross.
Why not wait to see the finished product before getting your panties in a bunch.
EVOlutionary
So with your reasoning the 15-pound Baer brakes must not be as safe as the stock ones. Or the Wilwood SBC, also must be dangerous.
Even with a thinner or smaller diameter rotor with a smaller caliper, the brake system on the EVO will still be superior to 90% of the cars on the road. Hell, any 10" rotor 2-piston caliper setup has enough power lock the wheels.
Whatever BR comes out with will be more than suitable for daily driving. As already stated by David, the only thing you lose by going to a smaller, lighter rotor is ultimate heat dissipation. These units will not be suitable for Road Racing, Track Days, or HPDE's, etc. These units will be suitable for street use, drag racing, possibly autocross.
Why not wait to see the finished product before getting your panties in a bunch.
EVOlutionary
Aug 4, 2006, 02:02 PM
#103
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FWIW, I've been using the BAER aluminum hat front rotors (Eradispeed +?) with DS2500 pads for a while. I've been to 4-5 HPDEs and a bunch of autocrosses with them. My backing plates are cut out and I use the factory Mitsu brake air guides.
The rotors appear to be working well - no crazing/cracking on the friction surface, minimal grooving, minimal lip forming. I haven't measured the actual rotor thickness change, though. The stock rotors definitely wore much faster than these rotors. Mind you, on the track I'm careful to build heat into the brakes slowly and I always cool the brakes down by driving around a bit after coming off the track. YMMV
The rotors appear to be working well - no crazing/cracking on the friction surface, minimal grooving, minimal lip forming. I haven't measured the actual rotor thickness change, though. The stock rotors definitely wore much faster than these rotors. Mind you, on the track I'm careful to build heat into the brakes slowly and I always cool the brakes down by driving around a bit after coming off the track. YMMV
Aug 4, 2006, 02:12 PM
#104
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Thanks for sharing the results, Dave.
The gain of 5 whp on the dyno should be worth a gain of 0.05s/0.5mph at the strip (typically, every 10 whp is worth 0.1s/1mph). This is equivalent to what you would get from a 50 lb reduction in static (non-rotating) weight.
So the 15 lb loss in rotor weight is equivalent to losing 50 lbs of static weight. That's a factor of 3.5.
According to my calculations, there isn't a generic formula for how much rotational weight is worth in terms of static weight (I've heard a factor of 5, 10, etc. thrown around). It's going to depends on the diameter of the rotating object -larger diameters are worth more (because of the inertial moments usually goes like the square of the diameter). Because of this, lighter wheels should be worth ET more then lighter rotors, because of their larger diameter.
Sorry for the long post, and thanks again
The gain of 5 whp on the dyno should be worth a gain of 0.05s/0.5mph at the strip (typically, every 10 whp is worth 0.1s/1mph). This is equivalent to what you would get from a 50 lb reduction in static (non-rotating) weight.
So the 15 lb loss in rotor weight is equivalent to losing 50 lbs of static weight. That's a factor of 3.5.
According to my calculations, there isn't a generic formula for how much rotational weight is worth in terms of static weight (I've heard a factor of 5, 10, etc. thrown around). It's going to depends on the diameter of the rotating object -larger diameters are worth more (because of the inertial moments usually goes like the square of the diameter). Because of this, lighter wheels should be worth ET more then lighter rotors, because of their larger diameter.
Sorry for the long post, and thanks again
Aug 4, 2006, 02:24 PM
#105
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Originally Posted by trinydex
what about going down really long hills then??? what if someone out there has a commute that involves coming down about 1000 feet every day? the evo is not a light car, neither is it not demanding on brakes. all i'm saying is such an item should have a CAUTIONARY denotion, EVEN in the title of its product description. if you beg to differ then once again, you're not takin' a lawyer's angle.
**** man, let Dave worry about the lawyers, send him and e-mail, and stop busting our *****.