Brian Crower Evo VIII Cams Specs and Results...
Sep 27, 2006, 09:57 AM
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Brian Crower Evo VIII Cams Specs and Results...
HorsepowerFreaks did a group buy on Brian Crower Camshafts about a month ago and we sold SEVERAL sets of 272's and a few 280's. A lot of people were timid about buying the camshafts because of the price (310 shipped for BOTH cams) but after receiving the cams and installing it was all smiles.
Brian Crower, as the name implies, is in fact related to THE Crower and did in fact work for Crower (his father) until he split to better serve the import crowd. He uses high quality billet steel cores and draws from his experience working with crower to design and produce mean camshafts.
For those of you who are technically minded...you may be asking how do these stack up to a more commonly used camshaft in the 4G63? Well we have an answer for you. This is a comparison of the HKS 272's and the Brian Crower 272's
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Dowel pin position is the same as the HKS spec. Heres the apples to apples comparison at the lobe between the BC0111(272's) and HKS 272:
Dur @ .010 BC = 228/228 vs HKS = 224/223
Dur @ .020 214/214 vs 218/217
Dur @ .050 187/187 vs 191/190
Dur @ .100 156/154 vs 159/157
Lobe Lift - .244/.228 vs .244/.231
Gross Lift - .415/.388 vs .415/.392
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Weight Comparison (I realize that this doens't take into account rotational inertia etc....BUT TAKE IT FOR WHAT ITS WORTH!!!)
Weight of BC camshaft 4.1 lbs
Weight of HKS camshaft 4.1 lbs
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Price Comparison
~600.00 for BOTH HKS cams (REALLY good deal for HKS cams
)
~310.00 for BOTH BC cams
So....basically you get the same camshaft as far as quality, characteristics, and power...at a much lower price.
I'm sending emails out to everyone who bought a set of BC 272's to post up there opinions, dyno charts, review of the BC cams. If you've installed a set of BC cams please feel free to comment.
Brian Crower, as the name implies, is in fact related to THE Crower and did in fact work for Crower (his father) until he split to better serve the import crowd. He uses high quality billet steel cores and draws from his experience working with crower to design and produce mean camshafts.
For those of you who are technically minded...you may be asking how do these stack up to a more commonly used camshaft in the 4G63? Well we have an answer for you. This is a comparison of the HKS 272's and the Brian Crower 272's
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dowel pin position is the same as the HKS spec. Heres the apples to apples comparison at the lobe between the BC0111(272's) and HKS 272:
Dur @ .010 BC = 228/228 vs HKS = 224/223
Dur @ .020 214/214 vs 218/217
Dur @ .050 187/187 vs 191/190
Dur @ .100 156/154 vs 159/157
Lobe Lift - .244/.228 vs .244/.231
Gross Lift - .415/.388 vs .415/.392
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Weight Comparison (I realize that this doens't take into account rotational inertia etc....BUT TAKE IT FOR WHAT ITS WORTH!!!)
Weight of BC camshaft 4.1 lbs
Weight of HKS camshaft 4.1 lbs
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Price Comparison
~600.00 for BOTH HKS cams (REALLY good deal for HKS cams
)~310.00 for BOTH BC cams
So....basically you get the same camshaft as far as quality, characteristics, and power...at a much lower price.
I'm sending emails out to everyone who bought a set of BC 272's to post up there opinions, dyno charts, review of the BC cams. If you've installed a set of BC cams please feel free to comment.
Sep 27, 2006, 10:24 AM
#2
I installed my Brian Crower 272's and the results are great! Mine were tuned using my ECU+. After doing very little tuning my car put out 355hp on the ECU+ dyno program. For comparisons sake my friend with very very similar mods but with GSC cams and more time in his tune has put out a best of about 360hp on his ECU+ dyno. My tune was pretty conservative also in the 11.0 range. The car was still pulling hard at my shift point around 7700 rpm.
These cams are a STEAL at the price they're offered. It's nice to see a company price their product where they should instead of trying to extract top dollar from everyone. Another thing these cams have great spool and idle great. I didn't have to raise my idle rpm at all. Brian Crower is also easy to talk to and will promptly answer any questions.
The cams are also not just an HKS or GSC 272 copy. They are ground differently and the specs were picked after testing many different grinds.
These cams are a STEAL at the price they're offered. It's nice to see a company price their product where they should instead of trying to extract top dollar from everyone. Another thing these cams have great spool and idle great. I didn't have to raise my idle rpm at all. Brian Crower is also easy to talk to and will promptly answer any questions.
The cams are also not just an HKS or GSC 272 copy. They are ground differently and the specs were picked after testing many different grinds.
Sep 27, 2006, 10:32 AM
#3
I want to sum up a few things. The Brian Crower cams produce similar power but seem to have a little better spool characteristics and idle better than HKS or GSC 272's from my experience. I have personally experienced all 3.
Sep 28, 2006, 10:26 AM
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Anyone else? I will be measuring Intake Air Temp with stock intercooler, and will then proceed to installing the BC 272's. Please guys chime in on the Brian Crower Camshafts.
Sep 28, 2006, 07:58 PM
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I got mine installed and will post a review shen my ECU gets back from being flashed. Even on the ride home I didnt have a problem with idle, seem like great quality. Thanks Eric and BC for the great deal.
Sep 29, 2006, 01:37 PM
#7
good info.
the duration numbers and lift are similar but what about the LCAs? If there are significant differences (5 degrees) between the two brands here this will have a great affect on the idle and also on the power curves even though they look the same when just comparing duration at lift and lift.
And on price, which is good like you said, premium brand off the shelf flat tappet US V8 cams usually sell for $110-150. There is no reason for a 4G63 cam to sell for $300 each but people have probably been conditioned to that.
the duration numbers and lift are similar but what about the LCAs? If there are significant differences (5 degrees) between the two brands here this will have a great affect on the idle and also on the power curves even though they look the same when just comparing duration at lift and lift.
And on price, which is good like you said, premium brand off the shelf flat tappet US V8 cams usually sell for $110-150. There is no reason for a 4G63 cam to sell for $300 each but people have probably been conditioned to that.
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Oct 1, 2006, 01:05 PM
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HKS's Lobe Center Angle (LCA) is 110 degrees
BC's Lobe Center Angle (LCA) is 106 degrees
Most people neglect to degree their cams and end up with a +/- 2 degree offset in their lobe centerline. I've degreed several sets of factory and aftermarket "cheater" cams for SPEC class racing and there is often a variance in the cams and engine to engine as to where "straight up" is considered with a set of cams.
The guys down in Mexico learning how to degree cams!
BC's Lobe Center Angle (LCA) is 106 degrees
Most people neglect to degree their cams and end up with a +/- 2 degree offset in their lobe centerline. I've degreed several sets of factory and aftermarket "cheater" cams for SPEC class racing and there is often a variance in the cams and engine to engine as to where "straight up" is considered with a set of cams.
The guys down in Mexico learning how to degree cams!
Last edited by HPF Kyle; Oct 16, 2006 at 02:23 PM.
Oct 1, 2006, 05:46 PM
#10
Originally Posted by HPF Eric
HKS's Lobe Center Angle (LCA) is 110 degrees
BC's Lobe Center Angle (LCA) is 106 degrees
If you degree'd your camshafts and set them up @ 0/0 there would be a 4 degree difference...If you retarded BC's Intake and Exhaust camshafts 4 degree's... you would have your essential "HKS" cams.
Most people neglect to degree their cams and end up with a +/- 2 degree offset in their lobe centerline. I've degreed several sets of factory and aftermarket "cheater" cams for SPEC class racing and there is often a variance in the cams and engine to engine as to where "straight up" is considered with a set of cams.
I should do a write up on "how to degree your evo cams"
The guys down in Mexico learning how to degree cams!
BC's Lobe Center Angle (LCA) is 106 degrees
If you degree'd your camshafts and set them up @ 0/0 there would be a 4 degree difference...If you retarded BC's Intake and Exhaust camshafts 4 degree's... you would have your essential "HKS" cams.
Most people neglect to degree their cams and end up with a +/- 2 degree offset in their lobe centerline. I've degreed several sets of factory and aftermarket "cheater" cams for SPEC class racing and there is often a variance in the cams and engine to engine as to where "straight up" is considered with a set of cams.
I should do a write up on "how to degree your evo cams"
The guys down in Mexico learning how to degree cams!
Oct 2, 2006, 08:30 AM
#13
HKS's Lobe Center Angle (LCA) is 110 degrees
BC's Lobe Center Angle (LCA) is 106 degrees
If you degree'd your camshafts and set them up @ 0/0 there would be a 4 degree difference...If you retarded BC's Intake and Exhaust camshafts 4 degree's... you would have your essential "HKS" cams.
Most people neglect to degree their cams and end up with a +/- 2 degree offset in their lobe centerline. I've degreed several sets of factory and aftermarket "cheater" cams for SPEC class racing and there is often a variance in the cams and engine to engine as to where "straight up" is considered with a set of cams.
Good info and thanks. If put in w/o adj gears, the Crower ones would probably idle a little rougher but make more power vs the HKS. Looks like a great deal on the BC cams.
On degreeing, I've degreed V8 cams and never had one that wasn't at least 2 degrees out from spec.
BC's Lobe Center Angle (LCA) is 106 degrees
If you degree'd your camshafts and set them up @ 0/0 there would be a 4 degree difference...If you retarded BC's Intake and Exhaust camshafts 4 degree's... you would have your essential "HKS" cams.
Most people neglect to degree their cams and end up with a +/- 2 degree offset in their lobe centerline. I've degreed several sets of factory and aftermarket "cheater" cams for SPEC class racing and there is often a variance in the cams and engine to engine as to where "straight up" is considered with a set of cams.
Good info and thanks. If put in w/o adj gears, the Crower ones would probably idle a little rougher but make more power vs the HKS. Looks like a great deal on the BC cams.
On degreeing, I've degreed V8 cams and never had one that wasn't at least 2 degrees out from spec.
Oct 2, 2006, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by 4G63Rules
If you retard both intake and exhaust 2 degrees, the lobe center angles will still be 106 degrees.
To clarify my mistake... LCA is the angle (in degrees) between the point of max lift on the intake cam lobe and the max lift on the exhaust cam lobe.(of a given cylinder...no you dont get to mix 1 and 3!)
So in order to change the LCA of the BC cams from 106 to 110... you would need to retard the intake cam 1 degree and advance the exhaust cam 1 degree...or any variation of the two adding up to 2 degrees.
The LCA can be completely altered by adjusting the cam gears... In the world of pushrod V8's you cannot change your LCA...because all the lobes are on the same shaft! doh!
Also note that a common way to find the lobe center for your lobe is to take measurements at .050" lift...or .100" on both sides of the camshaft and bisect the angle to find the point of maximum lift. NOTE: This is not entirely accurate as camshaft grinders use aggressive ramp rates on the valve opening, but not on the valve closing...so your point of maximum lift may be incorrectly calculated by using this method.
Thanks 4G63Rules for pointing out my mistake
Last edited by HPF Kyle; Oct 16, 2006 at 02:25 PM.
