Buschur Racing fuel system solutions....
Oct 17, 2006, 09:47 AM
#31
A few notes . . .
- The dual pump system something that need not be considered until or unless one cannot maintain adequate pressure with a single 'HO' pump. Needless to say, the dual pump setup isn't necessary except for those truly in HIGH hp, fuel starving territory.
- Where the 'HO' pump is concerned, I have one and I am running it presently. While I am not asking for specifics (don't want to step on anyone's toes), I am curious as to what is its general modification (physical, electrical, or . . )? I'm asking only because I don't see anything obvious aside from the fact that it's a model intended for a different car (looks like my Mustang pump).
- The second pump is (or should be) triggered to activate at the point whereby the first pump cannot maintain adequate pressure. As to where this point occurs is a variable, but I'd venture put it at a point whereby pressure drops ~5-10% below where it should be. The second pump does indeed increase pressure, which in turn increases volume of flow per a given injector pulsewidth.
- And finally, as Drifto denoted (kudos to him), pump voltage can be increased from 13.X to ~14.3 simply by improving the factory ground wiring. This improvement in voltage works out to as much as a 25lph (10+%) improvement, or upwards of 80-90bhp(!) in additional capacity for a single pump.
- The dual pump system something that need not be considered until or unless one cannot maintain adequate pressure with a single 'HO' pump. Needless to say, the dual pump setup isn't necessary except for those truly in HIGH hp, fuel starving territory.
- Where the 'HO' pump is concerned, I have one and I am running it presently. While I am not asking for specifics (don't want to step on anyone's toes), I am curious as to what is its general modification (physical, electrical, or . . )? I'm asking only because I don't see anything obvious aside from the fact that it's a model intended for a different car (looks like my Mustang pump).
- The second pump is (or should be) triggered to activate at the point whereby the first pump cannot maintain adequate pressure. As to where this point occurs is a variable, but I'd venture put it at a point whereby pressure drops ~5-10% below where it should be. The second pump does indeed increase pressure, which in turn increases volume of flow per a given injector pulsewidth.
- And finally, as Drifto denoted (kudos to him), pump voltage can be increased from 13.X to ~14.3 simply by improving the factory ground wiring. This improvement in voltage works out to as much as a 25lph (10+%) improvement, or upwards of 80-90bhp(!) in additional capacity for a single pump.
Oct 17, 2006, 10:15 AM
#32
Ted, I agree with your points.
Not too sure the voltage of the pump is going to increase above what it is, atleast on my particular car though. We did a lot of testing in the weeks we were working on this and testing right at the fuel pump for voltage showed the same output as the battery at the post. I was actually very shocked to see that. If a car had a grounding issue then, yes I would agree it will help.
The modifications to the pump are internal, both electrical and mechanical. The pump IS modified. I had my own doubts when I first was approached with it and sent it out to have it flow tested by Kinsler Fuel Injection. They were also surprised at what they saw as when I sent it they told me it was just a Walbro someone ground the numbers off of. Not the case.
More on pumps.
The standard 255 lt/hr pump that is made by Walbro and used by everyone flows
258 lt/hr at 40 psi but at 100 psi of pressure it only flows 100 lt/hr, this is at 13.2 volts.
Our HO pump at 40 psi flows the same 258 lt/hr BUT at 100 psi flows 157.7 lt/hr, also at 13.2 volts.
If you bump the voltage to our single HO pump to 15 volts at 90 psi it will flow 233 lt/hr, which is pretty damn huge.
I am using 90 psi as a high number as a lot of people use an adjustable regulator, so you could set the base at 50 psi and then hit the car with 40 psi of boost. This is, I realize, on the high side but I am trying to show how good it actually flows at high boost levels.
It is going to be very difficult for a car running 30 psi or less to outflow our single HO pump.
Not too sure the voltage of the pump is going to increase above what it is, atleast on my particular car though. We did a lot of testing in the weeks we were working on this and testing right at the fuel pump for voltage showed the same output as the battery at the post. I was actually very shocked to see that. If a car had a grounding issue then, yes I would agree it will help.
The modifications to the pump are internal, both electrical and mechanical. The pump IS modified. I had my own doubts when I first was approached with it and sent it out to have it flow tested by Kinsler Fuel Injection. They were also surprised at what they saw as when I sent it they told me it was just a Walbro someone ground the numbers off of. Not the case.
More on pumps.
The standard 255 lt/hr pump that is made by Walbro and used by everyone flows
258 lt/hr at 40 psi but at 100 psi of pressure it only flows 100 lt/hr, this is at 13.2 volts.
Our HO pump at 40 psi flows the same 258 lt/hr BUT at 100 psi flows 157.7 lt/hr, also at 13.2 volts.
If you bump the voltage to our single HO pump to 15 volts at 90 psi it will flow 233 lt/hr, which is pretty damn huge.
I am using 90 psi as a high number as a lot of people use an adjustable regulator, so you could set the base at 50 psi and then hit the car with 40 psi of boost. This is, I realize, on the high side but I am trying to show how good it actually flows at high boost levels.
It is going to be very difficult for a car running 30 psi or less to outflow our single HO pump.
Oct 17, 2006, 10:25 AM
#33
Originally Posted by davidbuschur
Not too sure the voltage of the pump is going to increase above what it is, atleast on my particular car though. We did a lot of testing in the weeks we were working on this and testing right at the fuel pump for voltage showed the same output as the battery at the post.
Originally Posted by davidbuschur
The modifications to the pump are internal, both electrical and mechanical. The pump IS modified. I had my own doubts when I first was approached with it . . .
Last edited by Ted B; Oct 17, 2006 at 10:29 AM.
Oct 17, 2006, 10:36 AM
#34
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While we are on subject...
Dave-
I have mods equivelant to the BR stages 1-2 or in other words the Warrtalon/BR package.
Now i am seeing up to 116% IDC @ 7000 RPMs in 4th and over 100% from 5000 rpm in 3rd all the way through the end of 5th.
I do have a Walbro 255; though still stock injectors.
Now what are my options? I think it is safe to assume this new system is overkill; but for someone in my position who needs to do something about fueling right now, and has plans for a 35r in the future; would this be a possibility? Is there a possibility of you doing this same setup though with duel Walbro 255s instead for the big power stock turbo guys (and people in my position)? Or is your simple HO pump a better solution? Or just bigger injectors?
I have a huge problem finding answers to this problem i have recently encountered; and i actually planned on calling you today, until i saw this thread.
Ted - Do you think a solution as simple as the HKS Circle Earth grounding kit would provide this same solution?
Or do you mean improving the ground directly from the fueling unit?
Dave-
I have mods equivelant to the BR stages 1-2 or in other words the Warrtalon/BR package.
Now i am seeing up to 116% IDC @ 7000 RPMs in 4th and over 100% from 5000 rpm in 3rd all the way through the end of 5th.
I do have a Walbro 255; though still stock injectors.
Now what are my options? I think it is safe to assume this new system is overkill; but for someone in my position who needs to do something about fueling right now, and has plans for a 35r in the future; would this be a possibility? Is there a possibility of you doing this same setup though with duel Walbro 255s instead for the big power stock turbo guys (and people in my position)? Or is your simple HO pump a better solution? Or just bigger injectors?
I have a huge problem finding answers to this problem i have recently encountered; and i actually planned on calling you today, until i saw this thread.
Originally Posted by Ted B
- And finally, as Drifto denoted (kudos to him), pump voltage can be increased from 13.X to ~14.3 simply by improving the factory ground wiring. This improvement in voltage works out to as much as a 25lph (10+%) improvement, or upwards of 80-90bhp(!) in additional capacity for a single pump.
Or do you mean improving the ground directly from the fueling unit?
Last edited by KOEvo; Oct 17, 2006 at 10:40 AM.
Oct 17, 2006, 10:40 AM
#35
Originally Posted by KOEvo
Now what are my options?
Originally Posted by KOEvo
I think it is safe to assume this new system is overkill; but for someone in my position who needs to do something about fueling right now, and has plans for a 35r in the future; would this be a possibility?
Originally Posted by KOEvo
Or is your simple HO pump a better solution? Or just bigger injectors?
Originally Posted by KOEvo
Ted - Do you think a solution as simple as the HKS Circle Earth grounding kit would provide this same solution?
Oct 17, 2006, 10:46 AM
#36
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Originally Posted by Ted B
Remove the pump ground wire from its present location (a cluster of gounds) and isolate it to its own ground. The improvement will become apparent when the pump is under load (or at least it did in my case). You should see 14+V, not 13.5.
.btw, what size injectors should i be looking to purchase?
Oct 17, 2006, 11:30 AM
#38
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Originally Posted by davidbuschur
680 cc injectors are fine. That is all you will need. I am surprised you are running out of injector actually. The stock injectors should not be out of flow for a Stage 2 stock turbo.
. I will PM you, i've got some questions.
Nov 3, 2006, 02:10 PM
#39
Update:
Installed the double pumper in a customer car this week. We are using a pressure switch to activate the pump, the wiring is super simple and straight forward. The wire for the pump can have a light installed in it to let you know that the pump is on or not, like a warning light.
The fuel curve was just perfect in this car. Stock lines, stock regulator, double pumper and 1200 cc injectors. Ran the car out to 8500 rpm and up to 38 psi of boost. Performed perfectly.
I have 5 cores here now that I have accumulated. The cost of the entire kit with the pressure switch, twin pumps etc. is $500. This should be enough fuel for any EVO with any turbo up to the "37R". We've already made 650 whp on our dyno without a problem.
I will get a picture posted of the kit next week. I have the final assembly here on my desk I am working on. We had some kick *** custom fittings made so the units would fit better.
Installed the double pumper in a customer car this week. We are using a pressure switch to activate the pump, the wiring is super simple and straight forward. The wire for the pump can have a light installed in it to let you know that the pump is on or not, like a warning light.
The fuel curve was just perfect in this car. Stock lines, stock regulator, double pumper and 1200 cc injectors. Ran the car out to 8500 rpm and up to 38 psi of boost. Performed perfectly.
I have 5 cores here now that I have accumulated. The cost of the entire kit with the pressure switch, twin pumps etc. is $500. This should be enough fuel for any EVO with any turbo up to the "37R". We've already made 650 whp on our dyno without a problem.
I will get a picture posted of the kit next week. I have the final assembly here on my desk I am working on. We had some kick *** custom fittings made so the units would fit better.
Last edited by David Buschur; Jul 28, 2008 at 07:03 PM.
Nov 3, 2006, 06:09 PM
#40
Dave,
I may be ordering one of these VERY shortly. Would it be possible to have it sent to me, then I send the core back for the core charge? Been down my car for a bit and it should be running this weekend and I just can't have any more down time as I am to be moving and will no longer have a backup vehicle...
I may be ordering one of these VERY shortly. Would it be possible to have it sent to me, then I send the core back for the core charge? Been down my car for a bit and it should be running this weekend and I just can't have any more down time as I am to be moving and will no longer have a backup vehicle...
Nov 21, 2006, 06:39 AM
#41
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Dave,
Would this setup be available with the option of using the standard walbro instead of the HO being offered!
If this were possible it should reduce to cost to a person who probably would'nt need all of the fuelling provided by the two HO pumps, but needs more than a single walbro can provide.
How say you sir?
Would this setup be available with the option of using the standard walbro instead of the HO being offered!
If this were possible it should reduce to cost to a person who probably would'nt need all of the fuelling provided by the two HO pumps, but needs more than a single walbro can provide.
How say you sir?
