The 500 whp above. That is a very far stretch of what it could make and it would have to be number put down on a Dynojet. My car is probably making the most you are going to see and it made 450 whp/450 ft lbs.

Here is the dynosheet for all you guys to see. For the 50th time, with this HP level the car ran 10.89 at 128 mph in FULL street trim, Yokahama Neova's tires. Car makes 20 psi by 3500 rpm. Extremely smooth, I have found it impossible to get the turbo to compressor surge, so the transition in corners is pretty phenominal.



For those of you that don't contact me directly and aren't our customers let me put a few questions out there for you to ask yourself. This will help you decide what is best for you and your EVO. This is what I ask every single guy that contacts me about what turbo he should buy for the car.

"What do you use the car for 90% of the time? How much lag are you willing to actually tolerate? How much do you like the way the stock turbo feels down low?"

If you ask yourself those 3 questions and don't lie to yourself you will be able to easily pick the turbo that is going to make you happiest. There is of course an exception and I will get to that, it's more a dick measuring contest than anything though.

For me, 1st question, 90% of the time I drive me car to and from our shop. 2nd question, I don't like lag, anything that takes until over 4,000 rpm to make 20 psi sucks. 3rd question, I LOVE the way the stock turbo feels and hits down low, love the feeling of that instant torque when I am just driving around.

So by going off of that I'd be able to tell myself that NO GT30 or GT35R is going to make me happy. Maybe a 50 trim, I don't know as I have never offered, run or tested them, I will know soon. So as of right now I would suggest the 20GLT-Green to myself.

Now for that exception. As you all know I put our GT35R on my car. I hate driving it, it is too laggy and not fun to drive. BUT that dick measuring contest.............I win that with the car running 9.90's at 142 mph. That has made me not put the car back to how I like it, which is with the LT-Green turbo on it. I am pretty proud of the fact I can jump in the car and run 9's just like it sits and that is making it very hard for me to change it back to the smaller turbo and run 10's again.

Enjoy and ASK YOURSELF THOSE THREE QUESTIONS!

 

Thank you for explaining that Dave. I hope people take the time to read your post.

If it wasn't so expensive to upgrade I'd be all over the LT. I'm going to miss my 20G I have now once spring rolls around.. but it will be for an upgrade to the 50trim/3065 because it's time my evo grew a larger set of *****.

 

Dave,

How much boost did you car hold at say 7500 to 8000 RPM with the 20G-LT on your RS?

Thanks
Brian

 

justchil,

If 100 guys look at that post 2 of them will read it

So I am done with this customers car. To be honest, which most of you don't like, I hit a wall with the car, a tuning wall, not a concrete wall.

On race gas with the alky injection on I was only able to make 372 whp and 356 ft lbs of torque. This was with me tuning the car with the stock computer and a flash in it.

Here is the car I am using:

2004 Evolution.

Stock engine, head, intake, throttle body, valve springs-retainers.

272 cams from a company I don't like
3" turbo back from someone other than us
DC Sports header
SS 02 housing
Forged Boost controller
Forged BOV
Our deluxe FMIC
Our upper i/c pipe
SMC alky kit
HKS intake pipe and HKS style mushroom filter

This car on pump gas with a little 110 mixed in and alky made 364 whp and 354 torque WITH the 20g-9-5. The car ran 11.28 at 124 mph. On straight pump and alky it made 349 whp and 308 ft lbs on that same 20g-9-5.

So we installed the new 20gLT-Green turbo yesterday. I tuned it with the flash at the same 25 psi of boost with pump/alky and the car made 361 whp and 317 ft lbs.

I then turned the boost up to 31 psi, added C16, left the alky on and tuned it again. I was only able to make 372 whp and 356 ft lbs of torque. I tried as hard as I could to make more. The factory ECU just wasn't cooperating.

So, I called Bobby, the owner. Told him I was disapointed and wanted to make a deal. The deal I made was silly on part as I knew the turbo would make power but felt bad. What I wanted to try was putting an AEM EMS on the car as in the past I have found so much power in switching once the turbo has been upgraded that I knew this would be the key. So we put the AEM on the car and I loaded a "guess" of a program in the car.

I unplugged the alky kit, knowing I wouldn't need it now with the C16 and AEM. The car made an astounding 411 whp and 395 ft lbs of torque! This was at the same 31 psi as yesterday but with richer AFR's and no alky.

To put this more into perspective, Curt's car made 432 whp with a built engine, ported head, different intake manifold, larger throttle body, super light wheels/tires, super light clutch and 35+ psi.

The freaking turbo works. You just have to be able to tune it and I don't know if it is just my not being competitant enough with the stock ECU or not. I don't feel that's it I just feel the stock ECU is a limiting factor.

Here is the dyno sheet from the stock computer VS the AEM with EVERYTHING else being the same.



The car is up 40 ft lbs and 40 whp over what it had last year when it ran 11.2 at 124, I'd say we should see a 10 second pass out of this stock engine EVO at full weight.

 

thats with the addition of AEM, hum. good job. i think an AEM is in the near future.

 

Wow, good numbers Dave. Nice to see it performing well. Sucks about the tuning though as I really dont want to upgrade to the AEM just yet.

 

Dave,

So what about us IX owners who just recently had the AEM released for us and dont have it yet. Will there be an alternative for tuning, in order to achieve the full potential out of this turbo, or will we also be limitied by the stock computer. Buying the turbo is one thing, having to buy the software to run it properly is another. Will standerd boost/fuel controllers work

I would rather not use alky if i could just toss race gas in the car as you did

thinking of someone else while typing lol

 

I'm interested in what the problems were that Dave was having with the stock ECU. There are people on here with over 500whp with the stock ECU, so that isn't the problem.

Was the car knocking and pulling timing? Then, of course, switching to an AEM could pick up power, since you can calibrate the knock correction however you wish.

I don't think we have the whole story. The stock ECU isn't the limiting factor in making that kind of power. It's been proven a number of times.


Eric

 

Dave- was the stock maf left in place or was it physically removed?

 

I'd be interested to know about the MAS too, since I run the AEM with the stock MAS still in place so I can swap back to DSMlink easily. I know I saw some impressive spool gains when I got rid of the stock 2g MAS in favor of a MAFT years back, but some people are making good power on the stock MAS so I decided it couldn't be that bad and left it in...

 

petey,

I am not even sure the AEM for the EVO9 has been released, as far as I know it has not. It is coming very soon though.

You do NOT have to have a stand alone to make this turbo work. Even at 372 whp it is more than you are ever going to make here on our dyno with a stock turbo and flash, so don't be fooled thinking 372 is a low number.

l2r,

The car would not take anymore timing without pulling some out. The timing numbers were actually more aggressive with the stock computer than I ended up having with the AEM. I had the knock corrections with the stock ECU at no more than 3.

I don't agree that the stock computer isn't a limiting factor. I see guys on here claiming that the stock computer is that good etc. I also know every single car I have swapped from a stock computer to the AEM I have made considerable gains with, every single one. Also if you look at all the guys talking about how great the stock computer is you won't find any of them setting any records with it. Unless it is a record like "I have the fastest EVO with a XX turbo and a stock computer" Given that came XX combination and an AEM I will gaurantee you that you will find a faster/quicker car.

Argue all you want about how great the stock computer is, bring me a car with a stock computer and I will install an AEM and show you differently. I'll put money where my mouth is on this. A stock turbo'd EVO up to Stage 3 is great with the stock ECU and I would never suggest anything else. Beyond that.................

 

The MAF sensor was ABSOLUTELY removed, is there another way?!

 

Dave,
One of the limits within the stock ECU lies in the load scaling on the fuel and timing maps. With this turbo it is likely that you were hitting loads beyond those in the stock maps. On my 2003 the stock maps went up to loads of 260, but running 28 psi on a white rabbit I have seen loads approaching 400 near peak torque and staying at 280-300 through redline. I have since rescaled my maps up to 360 and therefore have control over the timing and fuel settings at the loads I am really hitting. I know this may be off-topic for this thread, but as you found the stock ECU to be a limiting factor in this case it is relevant. Perhaps rescaling the load axes would provide you with the control you need to find the additional power.

-Paul

 

Everyone here knows that the stock ecu is no match against a Stand alone. Several people here have made power using the stock ecu. I made a little over 500 whp with my stock ecu and I plan on going stand alone in the coming months. As for now the car feels way better than it did with my previous turbo and tune. For the common Joe who just wants a bolt on turbo thats going to make power, are you saying that he or she has to have all your parts in place with a stand alone to make power. Since you said that You dont like the cams and the exhaust was not made by you.

 

If you didn't change the evoscan XML for your larger injectors than it is logging the wrong loadCalc as the formula is based on the stock injectors. I have a really hard time believing you are hitting 400 load column with a WR at 28psi. But maybe you are. Make sure your XML def is correct. I hit almost 300 with the stock 10.5 hotside turbo at 26psi.

Of course, if you are also using a open air filter or intake then the car will hit higher load cells at peak trq as well because your MAF HZ will be much higher because of the intake. I tuned a car with a AEM intake a couple days ago that was over running the 03-05 260 max load column at 23psi. Usually a car like this would hit just shy of 260 with a stock intake.