stock intercooler sufficient for 50 trim kit
Nov 16, 2006, 05:36 PM
#31
Originally Posted by Jeff_Jeske
Now lower your boost to 22 psi and see what happens.
BTW there is a hell of a lot more air flow going across that FMIC in "real life" than a pansy **** little fan can toss at it on a dyno.
In this scenario..... a 50 trim at 22psi..... the stock FMIC will be fine for drag racing.
BTW there is a hell of a lot more air flow going across that FMIC in "real life" than a pansy **** little fan can toss at it on a dyno.
In this scenario..... a 50 trim at 22psi..... the stock FMIC will be fine for drag racing.
now here is an example w/ a stock turbo and upgraded intercooler.
I dynoed 280whp and 293wtq w/stock manifold and intercooler at 22 psi
I then dynoed 312whp and 319wtq w/a buschur fmic and borla header, same boost pressure...thats up about 30whp and 30wtq now even if you attribute 1/2 to each mod that's still 15whp just by swapping the intercooler.
Now imagine the difference with a turbo kit...huge...at least double with a higher psi!
Nov 17, 2006, 04:45 AM
#32
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On the locally available 89-91 octane, raunchy pisstane w/o additives, I'll sometimes push 24-25# of boost, w/o knock, in 90*F. ambient temps. through my Nissei IC. I know I wouldn't feel comfortable attempting that with the stock intercooler. Given crappy, 91 octane gas and elevated(over 90*F.) ambient air temps, I feel safer at boost levels above 22#, with an upgraded IC, but to each his own.
This is with a JDM RS TiAl turbo with a fully ported 10.5 hotside, SSAC O2, off the shelf, non-SMART XEDE v. 390 91 octane map(-0.2* timing above 5000 RPM), Tomei thermo killer, rerouted throttle body coolant lines, BPR 8ES @.026 and Nissei FMIC, MBC @ 24#, on a 92*F. day.
I like my FMIC upgrade and feel that the $720 purchase price was money well spent. Knowing that it is effectively lowering charge air temps at elevated boost levels on crappy pump gas, in the sweltering tropical climate gives me peace of mind. Like I said...I wouldn't try to duplicate this with a stock intercooler, but to each his own.
This is with a JDM RS TiAl turbo with a fully ported 10.5 hotside, SSAC O2, off the shelf, non-SMART XEDE v. 390 91 octane map(-0.2* timing above 5000 RPM), Tomei thermo killer, rerouted throttle body coolant lines, BPR 8ES @.026 and Nissei FMIC, MBC @ 24#, on a 92*F. day.
I like my FMIC upgrade and feel that the $720 purchase price was money well spent. Knowing that it is effectively lowering charge air temps at elevated boost levels on crappy pump gas, in the sweltering tropical climate gives me peace of mind. Like I said...I wouldn't try to duplicate this with a stock intercooler, but to each his own.
Last edited by sparky; Nov 17, 2006 at 06:04 AM. Reason: regretful omissions
Nov 17, 2006, 05:36 AM
#33
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without going too far into this, aftermarket intercoolers are available in various sizes and styles. their purpose is to cool the air flowing through them while causing a minimum of pressure drop.
at 400whp, you're flowing a considerable amount (lbs/min) more air through the intercooler and thus are asking the intercooler to transfer a lot more heat energy from the intake air.
the stock ic can probably do this, but the flow rate will probably mean that it does cause a greater pressure drop than an aftermarket one with larger channels for example.
this doesn't mean that you will loose boost pressure but rather that the load on the turbo will be greater (to obatin the same boost pressure) which means the turbo won't work so efficiently.
it is by no means impossible to make 400whp or perhaps more with the stock ic because there's really no limit to what other mods you have so it's not as if it's an absolute must. however, imo, it is a more efficient way of making that power. I mean, it's probably possible to make that sort of power with the stock exhaust but whole bunch of other mods.
a rather good point to remember is that boost and charge temp are kindda interchangable (to a certain extent). what you're looking for is the mass of air that goes into the engine.
whether or not their cost justify the benefits, I'd leave that to the buyer. imo, I think they are but that's just me.
at 400whp, you're flowing a considerable amount (lbs/min) more air through the intercooler and thus are asking the intercooler to transfer a lot more heat energy from the intake air.
the stock ic can probably do this, but the flow rate will probably mean that it does cause a greater pressure drop than an aftermarket one with larger channels for example.
this doesn't mean that you will loose boost pressure but rather that the load on the turbo will be greater (to obatin the same boost pressure) which means the turbo won't work so efficiently.
it is by no means impossible to make 400whp or perhaps more with the stock ic because there's really no limit to what other mods you have so it's not as if it's an absolute must. however, imo, it is a more efficient way of making that power. I mean, it's probably possible to make that sort of power with the stock exhaust but whole bunch of other mods.
a rather good point to remember is that boost and charge temp are kindda interchangable (to a certain extent). what you're looking for is the mass of air that goes into the engine.
whether or not their cost justify the benefits, I'd leave that to the buyer. imo, I think they are but that's just me.
Nov 17, 2006, 06:23 AM
#34
Originally Posted by 03redtype-s
hey guys will the stock intercooler work fine with a 50 trim kit. I think i read somewhere where it would support to almost 400 hp. That is my goal so i would think that would be fine. If this info is incorrect just let me know
The answer to the question is yes, the stock intercooler will work fine with a 50 trim kit making 400whp.
Nov 17, 2006, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by 94AWDcoupe
The answer to the question is yes, the stock intercooler will work fine with a 50 trim kit making 400whp.
Nov 17, 2006, 06:53 AM
#36
Originally Posted by 94AWDcoupe
Maybe we should go back to the original question. Since everyone is so bent on showing their aftermarket intercooler is so much better than the stocker. THATS NOT WHAT THE THREAD IS ABOUT.
The answer to the question is yes, the stock intercooler will work fine with a 50 trim kit making 400whp.
The answer to the question is yes, the stock intercooler will work fine with a 50 trim kit making 400whp.
Nov 17, 2006, 09:23 AM
#39
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Originally Posted by 94AWDcoupe
I have seen a stock intercooler on a dsm lay down 380whp/380tq at 19psi on a 57 trim turbo. later that week it was tuned on the street at 29psi and was absolutely flying for the setup. Had to be making 450whp+. What you guys are not putting into the equation is the stock turbo at 29psi blows well over 400 degree air out of the turbo. A 50trim at 25psi blows about 325 degree air. The intercooler does not have to work as hard at removing heat. I dont have dyno proof but I bet anybody lunch it would be no problem laying down 450whp with a 50trim and stock intercooler.
Nov 17, 2006, 09:37 AM
#40
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the difference will not be enough to justify the price paid, but if money is not a problem.. then go for it! beside it adds blinking factor to yr ride.
Nov 17, 2006, 09:48 AM
#41
Originally Posted by 4Gsixty3
the difference will not be enough to justify the price paid, but if money is not a problem.. then go for it! beside it adds blinking factor to yr ride.
What FMIC do you have? (Just looking at your sig...impressive)
Nov 17, 2006, 09:53 AM
#42
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Originally Posted by Jeff_Jeske
What FMIC do you have? (Just looking at your sig...impressive)
i had this FMIC with my stock turbo running 23psi (on the hotside of the FMIC is warm to touch).
after i upgrade to the 50Trim, (the hotside of the FMIC is much cooler than the stock turbo)
50Trim produce much lower temp than the stock turbo at the same psi level.
Nov 17, 2006, 09:58 AM
#43
Originally Posted by Evo8yurAMG
well we didnt say it wouldnt work but i bet if you put a different intercooler on that setup it would have made "some" difference
Nov 17, 2006, 10:00 AM
#44
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Originally Posted by sonicnofadz
Yeah the stock intercooler is definitely good enough for a reliable 400 whp. I think alot of people are in denial beause they have been swindled by the vendors into buying a aftermarket FMIC. 
To each their own...rather spend the money on Cams, Meth kit, race gas, suspension, head work, clutch, etc.