EVO Green/20g-LT airflow numbers
Dec 9, 2006 | 10:28 PM
#32
Great info Kevin. FWIW, I logged 1.7s 60-80mph times when I was trapping 116-117mph. This was with the stock turbo peaking 26psi on 93oct + meth.
On a conservative tune running just 93oct and peaking 21psi, I saw 60-80mph times around 2.1s and trapping 110-111mph.
So for me shaving roughly .4s from my 60-80mph times I saw an increase of 6-7mph in my traps and a decrease in et by .5-.6s. Just food for thought. I'm very impressed with your results thus far. If I hadn't already bought another vendor's 50trim kit, I would have a hard time passing this turbo up. Looks like FP named it a Green for a reason.
On a conservative tune running just 93oct and peaking 21psi, I saw 60-80mph times around 2.1s and trapping 110-111mph.
So for me shaving roughly .4s from my 60-80mph times I saw an increase of 6-7mph in my traps and a decrease in et by .5-.6s. Just food for thought. I'm very impressed with your results thus far. If I hadn't already bought another vendor's 50trim kit, I would have a hard time passing this turbo up. Looks like FP named it a Green for a reason.
Dec 9, 2006 | 10:51 PM
#33
Originally Posted by kjewer1
Yes, I always run the strongest WG spring I can get away with...
Note that I now get the boost hump that PD1 reported. Boost still hit a set point of 21.x psi, humped up to 24 psi, and tapered back to 21 psi...[/url]
Note that I now get the boost hump that PD1 reported. Boost still hit a set point of 21.x psi, humped up to 24 psi, and tapered back to 21 psi...[/url]
I installed a stock IX WGA today in an attempt to correct the "hump" issue, and it worked! Adjusting the high-pressure actuator to almost no preload didn't affect the curve at all -- it was, indeed, the actuator itself. I'll post this along with some data in my thread when I get the tune in-line.
My advice is that if you'd like to run this turbo on the street at less than 24+psi, get the stock actuator. The high-pressure unit gave me (and others) this unavoidable hump in the curve which makes things tricky to tune and scares me in 4th gear under heavy load on 91 ocatane fuel. Also, if you run the stock WGA, your boost controller will have a great deal more resolution to deliver your desired boost level. With the HP WGA, and my boost controller completely disconnected, I still built 20+psi at the top of the hump.
Dec 9, 2006 | 10:53 PM
#34
Originally Posted by HmanEVO
Great info Kevin. FWIW, I logged 1.7s 60-80mph times when I was trapping 116-117mph. This was with the stock turbo peaking 26psi on 93oct + meth.
On a conservative tune running just 93oct and peaking 21psi, I saw 60-80mph times around 2.1s and trapping 110-111mph.
So for me shaving roughly .4s from my 60-80mph times I saw an increase of 6-7mph in my traps and a decrease in et by .5-.6s. Just food for thought. I'm very impressed with your results thus far. If I hadn't already bought another vendor's 50trim kit, I would have a hard time passing this turbo up. Looks like FP named it a Green for a reason.
On a conservative tune running just 93oct and peaking 21psi, I saw 60-80mph times around 2.1s and trapping 110-111mph.
So for me shaving roughly .4s from my 60-80mph times I saw an increase of 6-7mph in my traps and a decrease in et by .5-.6s. Just food for thought. I'm very impressed with your results thus far. If I hadn't already bought another vendor's 50trim kit, I would have a hard time passing this turbo up. Looks like FP named it a Green for a reason.
Wow, your numbers correspond well with mine. That's a good thing, for me.
And I was thinking the same thing about the name. The 20g flows 48 lbs/min, and a 50 trim flows 50 lbs. This turbo ends up right in the middle at 49.
Last edited by kjewer1; Dec 9, 2006 at 10:55 PM.
Dec 9, 2006 | 11:04 PM
#35
Originally Posted by kjewer1
Turbo installed pretty easily. I ordered some EVO9 parts to make life easy, and I'm glad I did. The EVO9 compressor outlet seems to be angled a little differently than the 8, I had a hard time getting the LICP to fit satisfactorily. Not much else to say about installation.
Is the LCIP different on the Evo VIII vs IX ?
Dec 10, 2006 | 04:44 AM
#36
Originally Posted by Spec'd
Is the LCIP different on the Evo VIII vs IX ?
Last edited by sparky; Dec 10, 2006 at 04:51 AM.
Dec 10, 2006 | 05:06 AM
#37
Evolved Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 619
Likes: 0
From: Istanbul
I would like to see pump gas numbers at a higher boost pressure. I want to know what this puppy is capable of on pump gas - ultimately try to figure out if it will be worth buying it to be run on pump gas 24/7.
I dont log boost, but my defi gauge shows 24.5psi in mid rpms dropping to 21.5psi at 7k+rpm with the stock snail. my car currently puts out 100+whp over stock baseline - fun car to drive, a bit loud but not too bad. the stock clutch has holding up well for the past 8k miles at this power level. I just want to make sure if f I am to dish out another $3-4k (20GLT Turbo, FMIC, Injectors, shipping, install, custom tune - maybe clutch/install if it makes too much HP for the stocker) I want to make sure it will give me another 40-50whp
I dont log boost, but my defi gauge shows 24.5psi in mid rpms dropping to 21.5psi at 7k+rpm with the stock snail. my car currently puts out 100+whp over stock baseline - fun car to drive, a bit loud but not too bad. the stock clutch has holding up well for the past 8k miles at this power level. I just want to make sure if f I am to dish out another $3-4k (20GLT Turbo, FMIC, Injectors, shipping, install, custom tune - maybe clutch/install if it makes too much HP for the stocker) I want to make sure it will give me another 40-50whp
Originally Posted by kjewer1
I did the back to back pump tests at 21 psi. I definitely can't repeat the 30 psi test on pump. 
What is it that you would like to see?
It moved 43-44 lbs/min with no issues at 21.x psi. Same settings I was previously running at 38 lbs/min. I am planning to see if I can get to about 45-46 lbs/min on pump gas with the tailpipe silencer removed. On the 2g with a 20g I was able to run 25 psi daily on pump, with 47 lbs/min. I feel like this turbo is too close to being maxed out to do this, but the 20g also maxed out at 48 lbs, so I don't see why not. I think that silencer makes me more likely to knock, and I need to do some testing without it.
Another interesting note about the silencer. With it in, I was getting just under 38 lbs/min. With it out when I ran the 12.3 at 110, just over 40 lbs. Boost peak was the same, but taper was slightly less without it in. This turbo at the same peak boost WITH the silencer in still moved more air at 43 lbs and tapered less than the stock turbo. You know, I think I'll pull the silencer today and do the 21 psi pump gas test over...
Edit> I meant to mention in the beginning that this is all airflow data, and some speed change timing. Obviously I would prefer track results, or even dyno numbers in a pinch, but that will have to wait until spring or until I get motivated to head south.
What is it that you would like to see? It moved 43-44 lbs/min with no issues at 21.x psi. Same settings I was previously running at 38 lbs/min. I am planning to see if I can get to about 45-46 lbs/min on pump gas with the tailpipe silencer removed. On the 2g with a 20g I was able to run 25 psi daily on pump, with 47 lbs/min. I feel like this turbo is too close to being maxed out to do this, but the 20g also maxed out at 48 lbs, so I don't see why not. I think that silencer makes me more likely to knock, and I need to do some testing without it.
Another interesting note about the silencer. With it in, I was getting just under 38 lbs/min. With it out when I ran the 12.3 at 110, just over 40 lbs. Boost peak was the same, but taper was slightly less without it in. This turbo at the same peak boost WITH the silencer in still moved more air at 43 lbs and tapered less than the stock turbo. You know, I think I'll pull the silencer today and do the 21 psi pump gas test over...
Edit> I meant to mention in the beginning that this is all airflow data, and some speed change timing. Obviously I would prefer track results, or even dyno numbers in a pinch, but that will have to wait until spring or until I get motivated to head south.
Dec 10, 2006 | 05:17 AM
#38
I think running more boost is going to be tough. I went up just 1 psi and added some knock. Going to ~10.8:1 helped but didn't get rid of it (less than 1 degree of retard though). I also didn't get any more peak airflow, but a little in the "hump." Considering that I'm getting over 45 lbs/min though, and the stock turbo can't physically do more than 42, it's at least ~30 hp there. With the same boost setpoint I was getting 38 lbs with the silencer and 40 without it on the stock turbo, and that should be a fair comparison for most cars. Take from that whatever you will, wether or not this increase is worth the cost to you is a question only you can answer.
Dec 10, 2006 | 05:58 AM
#39
Evolved Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 619
Likes: 0
From: Istanbul
I think if you are getting an additional 5lb/min at same boost level, that's worth another 40-50HP. If I get this, I was also thinking of getting:
680 or 780cc injectors,
APS intercooler (APS fits w/o cutting the undertray - I would be fine with any good intercooler aka Bushur/AMS/etc that will fit w/o cutting the undertray)
(depending on budget bushur ported mani / JIC or full race headers)
if need be works stage 2 clutch (might have do some more research on the clutch)
keeping the stock intake with drop in filter
any parts that you recommend changing? the car gets custom road tune with ecutek + wideband / egt / detcans on the road... my current mods are in my sig
also did you notice increase in exhaust noise with the LT?
thanks in advance for the advice and taking the time to post your findings!
680 or 780cc injectors,
APS intercooler (APS fits w/o cutting the undertray - I would be fine with any good intercooler aka Bushur/AMS/etc that will fit w/o cutting the undertray)
(depending on budget bushur ported mani / JIC or full race headers)
if need be works stage 2 clutch (might have do some more research on the clutch)
keeping the stock intake with drop in filter
any parts that you recommend changing? the car gets custom road tune with ecutek + wideband / egt / detcans on the road... my current mods are in my sig
also did you notice increase in exhaust noise with the LT?
thanks in advance for the advice and taking the time to post your findings!
Last edited by Bosshog; Dec 10, 2006 at 06:00 AM.
Dec 10, 2006 | 07:14 AM
#40
Nice job Kevin, now lets make a club meeting night so you take me and james for a ride. I need to make up my mind on a turbo soon.
Nick
* Sell me your 10.5 housing, maybe Ill catch James down the track with that.......well the 10.5 and a bat so I can break that freaks foot so he cant shift so fast.
Nick
* Sell me your 10.5 housing, maybe Ill catch James down the track with that.......well the 10.5 and a bat so I can break that freaks foot so he cant shift so fast.
Dec 10, 2006 | 01:05 PM
#41
Originally Posted by kjewer1
The other threads on this turbo have become quite cluttered, so I'm putting this info here. This is not meant to be a perfect comparison of the stock turbo and this new turbo, or even a review of this turbo. I have done some testing, looked at the data, and drawn some conclusions; and I encourage you to do the same for yourself. I have also not included all of the data I collected, just a few tidbits that illustrate certain points. I'm far too lazy these days for big writeups. 
Also, questions and discussions around this subject matter are encouraged, but I would like to see this thread stay a little cleaner than the others that have gone to complete ****. If you're a donkey raping porksword swallowing beanbag hugger, please move along. That being said...
I put up this page on my site, but here is a copy of it. I will continue to update that page as I continue this process. It is supposed to be warmer again next week and I have another set of tests planned. I am also putting links to the charts and pics despite the inconvenience to the reader in an effort to keep my limited bandwidth from getting raped.
Turbo installed pretty easily. I ordered some EVO9 parts to make life easy, and I'm glad I did. The EVO9 compressor outlet seems to be angled a little differently than the 8, I had a hard time getting the LICP to fit satisfactorily. Not much else to say about installation.
First pull on the street and there was a clear increase in power even while still at 21 psi. More than I would have expected. 60-80 times on pump gas have never been below 2.1 seconds, no matter how much tuning I do. I've spent whole days on it. First pull last night ended up too lean on the AEM (first hint at more airflow) . Added 10% fuel just to get it safe, it ended up too rich in the mid 10s, but comfortable. Logged two quick pulls and 60-80 times dropped to 1.8 seconds. That's quite an improvement for the same boost and still a little rich, with no other changes.
The car also feels stronger, and if lag has increased I'll have to get some low rpm logs to catch it. It feels just about the same. Quarter throttle at 2500-3k rpm still builds usuable boost. The turbo sounds different too, it's a lower pitch whine, which was interesting. The car also is much stronger from about 6k rpm and up, as others have mentioned. I'm sure the larger turbine wheel plays a role in this, but I also wanted to check boost taper. It's nearly non existant. At the actuator pressure of 19.x psi, there is no taper. Nice flat boost curve. With the HKS set at 30% resulting in just under 21 psi, it tapers to 19.5 by 7500. A little over 1 psi drop, better than the stock turbo.
Fast forward to the next day. Swapped back to DSMlink and made some pulls. Comparing to a previous stock turbo pull with the same boost, I come up with this chart. Don't use it to compare spool though, it's not scaled against RPM. I am within 1 psi of full boost by 3500 rpm in third gear. That last psi takes a few hundred rpm to get there thanks to the EBC trying to avoid the spike, so naturally that doesn't count.
http://www.posracing.net/files/Stock...reen_small.JPG
Airflow has increased from ~38 lbs/min to ~43 lbs/min. That's a pretty nice increase for the same boost. Part of this is due to the fact that boost holds better at higher rpm, by about 2 psi. Boost is set to 21 psi in both cases however. There is also about a 40 degree difference in intake temp. In the chart above the top lines are airflow, the middle are boost, and the bottom lines are airflow/rev. The Green-LT is the higher is all three data sets.
When I first saw results of this turbo, I predicted that it would hit 49 lbs/min despite being rated to 47, and then estimated from that that it would hold 26 psi to redline. After swapping in some race gas, pulling the line to the WGA, and pulling the Gus line off the 1g BOV, this was the result:
http://www.posracing.net/files/Green-LT_max_boost.JPG
Boost peaked at 30.1 psi in both gears and tapered to 26.1. Airflow peaked at 48.9 lbs/min. I was unable to get a clean pull in third gear, but this 2nd to third shift managed to not knock. Thinking about it later, wondering why I was getting knock on 117 octane fuel and hardly any timing, it occured to me that I forgot to remove the tailpipe silencer. So I was basically trying to flow ~49 lbs/min through a 1.5" exhaust. Oops, that sucks. I'll get some more logs next week without the silencer when it's not so damn cold...
Also, questions and discussions around this subject matter are encouraged, but I would like to see this thread stay a little cleaner than the others that have gone to complete ****. If you're a donkey raping porksword swallowing beanbag hugger, please move along. That being said... I put up this page on my site, but here is a copy of it. I will continue to update that page as I continue this process. It is supposed to be warmer again next week and I have another set of tests planned. I am also putting links to the charts and pics despite the inconvenience to the reader in an effort to keep my limited bandwidth from getting raped.
Turbo installed pretty easily. I ordered some EVO9 parts to make life easy, and I'm glad I did. The EVO9 compressor outlet seems to be angled a little differently than the 8, I had a hard time getting the LICP to fit satisfactorily. Not much else to say about installation.
First pull on the street and there was a clear increase in power even while still at 21 psi. More than I would have expected. 60-80 times on pump gas have never been below 2.1 seconds, no matter how much tuning I do. I've spent whole days on it. First pull last night ended up too lean on the AEM (first hint at more airflow) . Added 10% fuel just to get it safe, it ended up too rich in the mid 10s, but comfortable. Logged two quick pulls and 60-80 times dropped to 1.8 seconds. That's quite an improvement for the same boost and still a little rich, with no other changes.
The car also feels stronger, and if lag has increased I'll have to get some low rpm logs to catch it. It feels just about the same. Quarter throttle at 2500-3k rpm still builds usuable boost. The turbo sounds different too, it's a lower pitch whine, which was interesting. The car also is much stronger from about 6k rpm and up, as others have mentioned. I'm sure the larger turbine wheel plays a role in this, but I also wanted to check boost taper. It's nearly non existant. At the actuator pressure of 19.x psi, there is no taper. Nice flat boost curve. With the HKS set at 30% resulting in just under 21 psi, it tapers to 19.5 by 7500. A little over 1 psi drop, better than the stock turbo.
Fast forward to the next day. Swapped back to DSMlink and made some pulls. Comparing to a previous stock turbo pull with the same boost, I come up with this chart. Don't use it to compare spool though, it's not scaled against RPM. I am within 1 psi of full boost by 3500 rpm in third gear. That last psi takes a few hundred rpm to get there thanks to the EBC trying to avoid the spike, so naturally that doesn't count.
http://www.posracing.net/files/Stock...reen_small.JPG
Airflow has increased from ~38 lbs/min to ~43 lbs/min. That's a pretty nice increase for the same boost. Part of this is due to the fact that boost holds better at higher rpm, by about 2 psi. Boost is set to 21 psi in both cases however. There is also about a 40 degree difference in intake temp. In the chart above the top lines are airflow, the middle are boost, and the bottom lines are airflow/rev. The Green-LT is the higher is all three data sets.
When I first saw results of this turbo, I predicted that it would hit 49 lbs/min despite being rated to 47, and then estimated from that that it would hold 26 psi to redline. After swapping in some race gas, pulling the line to the WGA, and pulling the Gus line off the 1g BOV, this was the result:
http://www.posracing.net/files/Green-LT_max_boost.JPG
Boost peaked at 30.1 psi in both gears and tapered to 26.1. Airflow peaked at 48.9 lbs/min. I was unable to get a clean pull in third gear, but this 2nd to third shift managed to not knock. Thinking about it later, wondering why I was getting knock on 117 octane fuel and hardly any timing, it occured to me that I forgot to remove the tailpipe silencer. So I was basically trying to flow ~49 lbs/min through a 1.5" exhaust. Oops, that sucks. I'll get some more logs next week without the silencer when it's not so damn cold...
can you give us a run down of your mods, k thanks
Dec 10, 2006 | 01:19 PM
#42
Originally Posted by blowoffsilver
can you give us a run down of your mods, k thanks
Dec 10, 2006 | 01:36 PM
#43
Originally Posted by evovette
Nice job Kevin, now lets make a club meeting night so you take me and james for a ride. I need to make up my mind on a turbo soon.
Nick
* Sell me your 10.5 housing, maybe Ill catch James down the track with that.......well the 10.5 and a bat so I can break that freaks foot so he cant shift so fast.
Nick
* Sell me your 10.5 housing, maybe Ill catch James down the track with that.......well the 10.5 and a bat so I can break that freaks foot so he cant shift so fast.
also did you notice increase in exhaust noise with the LT?
Dec 10, 2006 | 01:54 PM
#44
Originally Posted by kjewer1
....... The 20g flows 48 lbs/min, and a 50 trim flows 50 lbs. This turbo ends up right in the middle at 49.
Dec 10, 2006 | 02:07 PM
#45
Unfortunately I have never run any variant of that turbo. Friends of mine have run the 3076 wheel in bolt on DSM turbos however, and looking at their logs and logs from DSMlink forums and other sources it seems to max out at 52 lbs/min. The 3071 will be somewhat below that. 99.99% of the time compressor wheels do max out at what they are rated at regardless of what turbine wheel and housings it's paired with (within reason, as long as there are no major restrictions of course), so I'm sure the 3071 wheel flows what it is rated at, just like the 3076. I can't recall what it's rating was, I want to say mid-high 40s. If that is correct, I would speculate that this bolt on turbo is a better option for most people.