The E85 thread, talk amongst yourselves
Dec 16, 2006, 06:14 AM
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The E85 thread, talk amongst yourselves
I have my car heading down to BR in the next week or so for a new build, here it whats going on it:
BR 2.3l
BR Head
Full BR Stage 4
COP if needed
AEM
20g LT/Green
TRE Trans with 4.11 final drive.
Dave is going to do a pump gas tune, a E85 tune, and C-16. It should turn out to be pretty interesting, as soon as it is done we should have some good numbers of what E85 can do. As soon as a track opens I will get some runs on her to see what E85 can do compared to C16. I will be driving the car on nice winter days here in Michigan and will leave some feedback on mileage and how the car drives.
I started this thread not so much to talk about my car but to discuss the merits and weaknesses of E85. I really like the fact that I can be driving a somewhat environmentally friendly car (compared to running a leaded race gas) and I don't have to worry about poisoning my kids with lead when they are in it.
One other point nobody has talked about is tailpipe emissions when NOT running a cat. It would be nice if all we got was C02 and H20 but E85 has has 15% gas in it that is not possible.
On another note, I have been checking out pumps in Michigan and they all have a sticker on them that states "Fuel will contain at least 70% Ethanol". Are there any regulation for E85? Does it have to meet a RON/ROM standard like pump gas? How consistent will the ratios be?
BR 2.3l
BR Head
Full BR Stage 4
COP if needed
AEM
20g LT/Green
TRE Trans with 4.11 final drive.
Dave is going to do a pump gas tune, a E85 tune, and C-16. It should turn out to be pretty interesting, as soon as it is done we should have some good numbers of what E85 can do. As soon as a track opens I will get some runs on her to see what E85 can do compared to C16. I will be driving the car on nice winter days here in Michigan and will leave some feedback on mileage and how the car drives.
I started this thread not so much to talk about my car but to discuss the merits and weaknesses of E85. I really like the fact that I can be driving a somewhat environmentally friendly car (compared to running a leaded race gas) and I don't have to worry about poisoning my kids with lead when they are in it.
One other point nobody has talked about is tailpipe emissions when NOT running a cat. It would be nice if all we got was C02 and H20 but E85 has has 15% gas in it that is not possible.
On another note, I have been checking out pumps in Michigan and they all have a sticker on them that states "Fuel will contain at least 70% Ethanol". Are there any regulation for E85? Does it have to meet a RON/ROM standard like pump gas? How consistent will the ratios be?
Last edited by 4ringturncoat; Dec 16, 2006 at 06:18 AM.
Dec 16, 2006, 07:57 AM
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I've been running E85 for a couple of weeks now and have been very happy with the results. With the mods listed out in my sig I'm showing about 440 lb-ft of tq and 440 whp in DataLogLab. There's probably a bit more power in it if I want to get more aggressive with my tune. There really isn't a lot of info I can share on the power capabilities, but the daily driving stuff is a little interesting.
Gas Mileage-
Before switching to E85 I was getting 18-21 mpg with my daily driving. With E85 I'm getting 14-16 mpg, which means I'm getting gas every 150-200 miles. If I were to go on a long road trip I would reflash my car for 93 octane before the trip. During a normal day I drive around 30-50 miles and drive by an E85 pump going to and from work, so the decrease in mileage hasn't bothered me much. Also, with E85 being $2.03/gal and 93 oct being $2.40, the miles/$ is pretty close to the same with both fuels. If you compare it to $5/gal + for 100 octane, it's much cheaper.
Cold start-
This is why the pump says min 70% ethanol content. During winter more gas is added to the blend to allow easier starting. I've started my car in temps as cool as 5F, but I wasn't sure it was going to start. The combination of the mini battery and few extra cranks that E85 requires when cold was pretty tough. I've found as it gets very cold (<15), the car will crank over as many as 10 times before starting, but it does start.
Drivability-
I've found that the car drives better with the E85, although this may have more to do with my tune on E85 than the fuel itself. Part throttle acceleration is very smooth as are transitions. There really is no downside to E85 in the drivability department.
Fuel Delivery-
This is another issue. With the stoich ratio for E85 being 9.8:1 it requires significantly more fuel. 780 cc injectors were not large enough for me to run anything more than 23 psi towards redline. I've just switched to 1000cc injectors and am seeing 80-85% IDC at 7500 RPM and 25 psi. I'm not sure if a dual pump setup would help or not, as I'm not currently monitoring fuel pressure so I don't know if it's dropping at the top end. With your setup I think 1000cc injectors may be too small for E85. Basically, E85 will require major fuel system modifications much earlier in the upgrade path.
Emissions-
I'm not sure of actual quantitative emmisions, but the catless exhaust smell is very much improved. At idle the smell is a little sweeter and much less obnoxious. While running gasoline I had people tell me that it smelled awful behind my car when I would go WOT, but now with E85 they don't notice any smells. This doesn't say much about chemical emissions, but smell emissions are way down.
I started a thread in the EcuFlash section that has been following my progress.
Hope this helps,
Paul
Gas Mileage-
Before switching to E85 I was getting 18-21 mpg with my daily driving. With E85 I'm getting 14-16 mpg, which means I'm getting gas every 150-200 miles. If I were to go on a long road trip I would reflash my car for 93 octane before the trip. During a normal day I drive around 30-50 miles and drive by an E85 pump going to and from work, so the decrease in mileage hasn't bothered me much. Also, with E85 being $2.03/gal and 93 oct being $2.40, the miles/$ is pretty close to the same with both fuels. If you compare it to $5/gal + for 100 octane, it's much cheaper.
Cold start-
This is why the pump says min 70% ethanol content. During winter more gas is added to the blend to allow easier starting. I've started my car in temps as cool as 5F, but I wasn't sure it was going to start. The combination of the mini battery and few extra cranks that E85 requires when cold was pretty tough. I've found as it gets very cold (<15), the car will crank over as many as 10 times before starting, but it does start.
Drivability-
I've found that the car drives better with the E85, although this may have more to do with my tune on E85 than the fuel itself. Part throttle acceleration is very smooth as are transitions. There really is no downside to E85 in the drivability department.
Fuel Delivery-
This is another issue. With the stoich ratio for E85 being 9.8:1 it requires significantly more fuel. 780 cc injectors were not large enough for me to run anything more than 23 psi towards redline. I've just switched to 1000cc injectors and am seeing 80-85% IDC at 7500 RPM and 25 psi. I'm not sure if a dual pump setup would help or not, as I'm not currently monitoring fuel pressure so I don't know if it's dropping at the top end. With your setup I think 1000cc injectors may be too small for E85. Basically, E85 will require major fuel system modifications much earlier in the upgrade path.
Emissions-
I'm not sure of actual quantitative emmisions, but the catless exhaust smell is very much improved. At idle the smell is a little sweeter and much less obnoxious. While running gasoline I had people tell me that it smelled awful behind my car when I would go WOT, but now with E85 they don't notice any smells. This doesn't say much about chemical emissions, but smell emissions are way down.
I started a thread in the EcuFlash section that has been following my progress.
Hope this helps,
Paul
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