Meth injection a band-aid?
Jan 3, 2007, 02:00 PM
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Meth injection a band-aid?
Spoke to a tuner today that specializes in turboing 4 cylinder NA's. Make a long story shot, when I made mention of meth/water injection he cringed. Showed me a kit that he once had in a customers car that was now on the shelf where as far as he was concerned was where it belonged.
I didnt want to argue with him, so I kept comments to myself. Curious as to what you guys would have said? I did mention more aggressive timing being possible, and keeping things cool, but he argued that the heat the meth/water is suppressing is essentially being created by the aggressive timing, which is walking backwards according to him.
I didnt want to argue with him, so I kept comments to myself. Curious as to what you guys would have said? I did mention more aggressive timing being possible, and keeping things cool, but he argued that the heat the meth/water is suppressing is essentially being created by the aggressive timing, which is walking backwards according to him.
Jan 3, 2007, 02:25 PM
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he doesn't know what hes talking about. the heat the meth/water take out is from compressing the air. and more correctly, inefficiently compressing the air.
edit: think of meth and or water as a hardcore intercooler. meth can actually cool the intake temp below ambient temps. no air/air intercooler in the world can do that
edit: think of meth and or water as a hardcore intercooler. meth can actually cool the intake temp below ambient temps. no air/air intercooler in the world can do that
Jan 3, 2007, 03:31 PM
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he doesn't know what hes talking about. the heat the meth/water take out is from compressing the air. and more correctly, inefficiently compressing the air.
edit: think of meth and or water as a hardcore intercooler. meth can actually cool the intake temp below ambient temps. no air/air intercooler in the world can do that
edit: think of meth and or water as a hardcore intercooler. meth can actually cool the intake temp below ambient temps. no air/air intercooler in the world can do that
Jan 3, 2007, 03:36 PM
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This guy is basically talking out of his ****...
Meth injection on the evo allows for basically the same tune as race gas at a fraction of the total cost since you only pay when you play. The HP increase is good but the real difference is in gained torque.
It's best to only talk about things that one really knows about first hand.
I've driven them both ways and the difference is VERY noticeable. Sure there are risks, but with the level of failsafes that are now available, the risks have become more tolerable.
Meth injection on the evo allows for basically the same tune as race gas at a fraction of the total cost since you only pay when you play. The HP increase is good but the real difference is in gained torque.
It's best to only talk about things that one really knows about first hand.
I've driven them both ways and the difference is VERY noticeable. Sure there are risks, but with the level of failsafes that are now available, the risks have become more tolerable.
Jan 3, 2007, 03:56 PM
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water injection doesn't just cool the charge, the water actually takes part in the combustion process smoothing the burn and supressing detonation. There are some technical articles floating around on the web somewhere.
It really is the equivalent of running race gas but still need good intercooling and ignition timing.
It really is the equivalent of running race gas but still need good intercooling and ignition timing.
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Jan 3, 2007, 04:24 PM
#9
water injection doesn't just cool the charge, the water actually takes part in the combustion process smoothing the burn and supressing detonation. There are some technical articles floating around on the web somewhere.
It really is the equivalent of running race gas but still need good intercooling and ignition timing.
It really is the equivalent of running race gas but still need good intercooling and ignition timing.
Jan 3, 2007, 04:30 PM
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Translated: We do not fully understand what meth injection is. Furthermore we do not know how to tune it, hook it up correctly or use it. We live our lives a 1/4 mile at a time bolting turbo kits on Civics and Neon Expresso's. Our motto is "fake it till you make it". You would be better off finding another shop. Thank you, please drive through.
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Translated: We do not fully understand what meth injection is. Furthermore we do not know how to tune it, hook it up correctly or use it. We live our lives a 1/4 mile at a time bolting turbo kits on Civics and Neon Expresso's. Our motto is "fake it till you make it". You would be better off finding another shop. Thank you, please drive through.
Jan 3, 2007, 06:55 PM
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I have about 10,000 hard miles on my SMC alky kit....almost 60k miles on the evo total, and I couldn't be happier. The Wideband still showing low 11s every day when the hammer is down.
Jan 3, 2007, 09:22 PM
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Well, water itself doesn't do much of that, but with alky or meth, it not only cools (doesn't cool as well as water, but that's ok), but it burns as fuel in the cylinder and raises the effective octane to race gas levels. The lesser cooling of alky vs water is more than overcome by the raising of octane.
http://not2fast.wryday.com/thermo/wa..._chemistry.txt