What your EVO needs for a fuel system, facts.
Jan 12, 2007, 11:28 AM
#1
What your EVO needs for a fuel system, facts.
Hi everybody.
This is going to be a long one
Well we have been doing a lot of testing over the last 6 months. This is the longest we have waited to actually get the information out there from any testing we have done. Today I finished up the last of what I needed to do on the fuel systems for the EVO.
As anyone that actually knows anything about us knows, we pride ourselves on selling you what you need and what works more than just selling crap that isn't needed or won't work as well as something else we know exists. That's how we want treated and that's how we treat our customers.
With that said, we have done quite a bit of testing and such on the EVO fuel system.
First let's talk about the fuel pumps. Most every EVO shop that sells a Walbro pump for an EVO sells the GSS342 pump.
Here are the specs on that pump at boost levels that are important. This is flow testing the pump at 13.2 volts.
40 psi the pump flows 410 lb/hr
60 psi the pump flows 360 lb/hr
70 psi the pump flows 332 lb/hr
80 psi the pump flows 285 lb/hr
100 psi the pump flows 160 lb/hr
So the first place to look is about 40 psi which is close to EVO rail pressure at idle, or your base fuel pressure. This really doesn't matter either as the car isn't going to run at 40 psi for long. As the boost comes up the fuel pressure raises 1 psi for each 1 psi raise in boost pressure.
To make this easier I am going to break it down in another "chart":
At 60 psi this pump is good for 600 flywheel horsepower
At 70 psi this pump is good for 553 flywheel horsepower
At 80 psi this pump is good for 475 flywheel horsepower
At 100 psi this pump is good for 266 flywheel horsepower
As you can see, as the pump falls off up top you can't make as much HP with it. The higher the base fuel pressure is set and the higher the boost goes the less the pump flows. So for a high horsepower, high boost EVO it just dies up top.
What happens is people end up putting in a big injector thinking they are out of fuel injector and as the pressure is falling the duty cycle is being ramped up higher and higher. We are guilty of this as much as anyone. Not anymore
I was going to go into what happens with you bump the voltage of the pumps from 13.2 to 15 volts but most of you are not interested in doing that and it is going to make this post so long nobody will read it. You can figure about 17% gain in flow. That will get you close. So it is substantial.
With the base pump out of the way now we can go onto our Modified High Output Walbro pump.
0 psi the pump flows 510 lb/hr
40 psi the pump flows 410 lb/hr
60 psi the pump flows 362 lb/hr
70 psi the pump flows 340 lb/hr
80 psi the pump flows 310 lb/hr
100 psi the pump flows 250 lb/hr
This makes this pump good for:
At 60 psi this pump is good for 603 flywheel horsepower
At 70 psi this pump is good for 566 flywheel horsepower
At 80 psi this pump is good for 516 flywheel horsepower
At 100 psi this pump is good for 416 flywheel horsepower
As you can see, if you are running high boost this pump really flows up top compared to a standard Walbro 255.
My brothers car and my car both ran out of fuel. I was able to run my EVO RS up to 542 whp on our dyno with the single Modified High Output pump we sell. I had 1200 cc injectors in the car running them at 100%+ duty cycles. The car ran a 9.97 at 142.32 mph like that. I was running our adjustable fuel pressure regulator kit on the stock fuel rail. This is where the testing started as my brother and I were both having the same troubles. Datalogging fuel pressure it was simple to find the problem. We were out of fuel pump.
Neither of us wanted to cut up our perfectly good EVO's to put in fuel cells. Neither of us wanted to run AN lines, I do not like AN lines. They dry out and crack and are prone to leaking after about 5 years. They are heavy, there is no real nice way to install them perfectly on a car. They are expensive and mostly, they just aren't needed.
My quest for a great double pumper(twin intank pumps) set up began. After careful study of the tank assembly and knowing I didn't want to hack into the factory wiring and didn't want to loose the factory fuel gauge I came up with an idea. First I needed more research. I called the best in the industry and got some flow rates of what the factory fuel lines could handle. Pushing fuel through a 5/16" fuel line you can supply enough fuel for 1,000 flywheel horsepower. This is exactly what I wanted to hear. No street EVO that I am going to want to actually drive is going to make that much power. An EVO making that much power is laggy as hell, no fun to drive and is more than likely dedicated for track. At that point, throw the stock fuel tank out, put in a lightweight fuel cell. My main concern was ease of installation and I wanted to be able to keep using as many stock components as I could.
I built the first double pumper set up and installed it in my RS. It worked absolutely amazing. The car went so rich that the car would barely run at WOT. After dialing in the AFR's again, back to where they were, the duty cycles dropped from 113% down to 65%!! At this point I had the adjustable regulator still on the car with the base pressure set at 50 psi. I was also still running the stock fuel rail. At this point it was obvious I didn't need a set of $700 1200 cc injectors in my car. I pulled them out and put in our $310 1,000 cc injectors.
The duty cycles of course went up a little, no problem. Then I decided to put the stock regulator on and see if I could still get by. No problem. The car was now making 590 whp (up from 542 when it ran 9.97) on 1,000 cc injectors, stock fuel rail, stock fuel lines, stock fuel pressure regulator!! The duty cycles were 84%. That's freaking great!
Here is the picture of our double pumper kit:
As you can see the kit is complete. It is a direct plug in. Non of the factory wiring is tapped into. It plugs in directly. We are using the same wiring bulk head fitting that is used in some Formula One fuel cells. The kit includes a pressure switch that is wired in for the 2nd pump only. At 16 psi of boost the 2nd pump is triggered to come on. For those of you that don't know the EVO doesn't have an external fuel filter. So it cannot be changed unless you buy a new fuel pump assembly. This is stupid. Our double pumper comes with a stainless steel inline 5 micron fuel filter. They can be bought seperately so you can change filters as needed in the future.
More data:
Our double pumper with two standard GSS342's in it will flow:
At 60 psi the twin pumps are good for 1200 flywheel horsepower
At 70 psi the twin pumps are good for 1106 flywheel horsepower
At 80 psi the twin pumps are good for 950 flywheel horsepower
At 100 psi the twin pumps are good for 533 flywheel horsepower
Our double pumper with two of our Modified High Output pumps in it will flow:
At 60 psi, 1206 FWHP
At 70 psi, 1133 FWHP
At 80 psi, 1033 FWHP
At 100 psi, 833 FWHP
Now, a note. There is some loss running two pumps together into a common line. I am going to eventually send these pumps out, for my own curiosity, and have them flowed through the Y that we use.
Right now what is important is we have a solution for 99% of EVO owners to go well into the 9's with minimal changes with a very high level of safety as the majority of the factory components are used.
I'm not done yet
Few weeks ago we had a friend/customer in here with his bad *** EVO. Car is set up like our black car, just like it actually. I was starting to dial the car in and at around 740 whp I started having problems. The car was going lean. Didn't make sense. This car had a fuel cell, -10 AN lines, Fuel pressure regulator etc. OH BUT WAIT!! The car was running the stock fuel rail! I went and got a fuel rail and installed it. Problem fixed. This car ended up making 790 whp on our dyno. This is basically the same number our black car made when it ran 8.95 at 163 mph. Let me remind you all, that regardless of what the dyno says we do have the quickest EVO8 in the world This dyno isn't built to give numbers to brag about, it's built for tuning.
This made me think further about what mine and my brothers car was going to need next. What part was going to hold us back next?
Today I brought my EVO to work. Put it on the dyno. Double checked the tune and dialed the AFR's in nice and flat.
Next step was to install a new fuel rail. Replace the stock one.
When I installed the new rail I put a new stock fuel pressure regulator on my car. The regulator was off an EVO9. Exact same part number. My stock regulator was bent slightly on the return outlet, not sure how that happened.
First pull on the dyno the car was LEANER with the new fuel rail. I was puzzled. I checked the vaccum sourse to the regulator, check air temps, coolant temps. All was the same. Made another pull, same leaner AFR's. At this point I am thinking WTF?! I go get my stock EVO8 pressure regulator and bend the outlet back where it is suppose to be, bolt it back onto the new fuel rail and make another pull. This put the AFR exactly where it was with the stock rail. Conclusion is, the stock fuel rail is good enough for up to 740 whp on our dyno, figure about 890 flywheel or Dynojet power.
Something to add to this. I do not like the stock rail. It appears as though the ends are epoxied on, it is poorly designed inside (although I have to say it works and is olive drab green. For what a fuel rail costs, it's not a horrible thing to spend your money on.
My conclusion to this is the stock fuel system, lines, rail, regulator on the car is a very well designed part. The saddle tanks work excellent, especially if you are autocrossing/roadracing. I personally do not want a race car I drive on the street. I want a street car I can race. That is what I have and I am trying to design parts that make a goal like this more affordable and safer for all of us.
Couple more things. Pricing (of course, since I am know as Buschur the Parts Pusher by some who don't really know me).
The double pumper is $450 if I use two standard Walbro pumps in it. If you have one GSS342 pump already you can subtract $85 from that price. If you have both pumps you can subtract $170.
The double pumper is $750 using both of our Modified High Output Walbro's. If you have already bought one from us subtract $200.
We also have fuel rails now. They are plain anodized black. $165.
Of course we have Fuel pressure regulator kits for the EVO, they are $400.
If you are using all of these components with the stock regulator and run out of fuel with your particular injector, switching the adjustable regulator can fix the problem. My next step will be putting the adjustable regulator back on when I get close to maxing out these 1,000 cc injectors again.
Hope you enjoyed the tech.
This is going to be a long one
Well we have been doing a lot of testing over the last 6 months. This is the longest we have waited to actually get the information out there from any testing we have done. Today I finished up the last of what I needed to do on the fuel systems for the EVO.
As anyone that actually knows anything about us knows, we pride ourselves on selling you what you need and what works more than just selling crap that isn't needed or won't work as well as something else we know exists. That's how we want treated and that's how we treat our customers.
With that said, we have done quite a bit of testing and such on the EVO fuel system.
First let's talk about the fuel pumps. Most every EVO shop that sells a Walbro pump for an EVO sells the GSS342 pump.
Here are the specs on that pump at boost levels that are important. This is flow testing the pump at 13.2 volts.
40 psi the pump flows 410 lb/hr
60 psi the pump flows 360 lb/hr
70 psi the pump flows 332 lb/hr
80 psi the pump flows 285 lb/hr
100 psi the pump flows 160 lb/hr
So the first place to look is about 40 psi which is close to EVO rail pressure at idle, or your base fuel pressure. This really doesn't matter either as the car isn't going to run at 40 psi for long. As the boost comes up the fuel pressure raises 1 psi for each 1 psi raise in boost pressure.
To make this easier I am going to break it down in another "chart":
At 60 psi this pump is good for 600 flywheel horsepower
At 70 psi this pump is good for 553 flywheel horsepower
At 80 psi this pump is good for 475 flywheel horsepower
At 100 psi this pump is good for 266 flywheel horsepower
As you can see, as the pump falls off up top you can't make as much HP with it. The higher the base fuel pressure is set and the higher the boost goes the less the pump flows. So for a high horsepower, high boost EVO it just dies up top.
What happens is people end up putting in a big injector thinking they are out of fuel injector and as the pressure is falling the duty cycle is being ramped up higher and higher. We are guilty of this as much as anyone. Not anymore
I was going to go into what happens with you bump the voltage of the pumps from 13.2 to 15 volts but most of you are not interested in doing that and it is going to make this post so long nobody will read it. You can figure about 17% gain in flow. That will get you close. So it is substantial.
With the base pump out of the way now we can go onto our Modified High Output Walbro pump.
0 psi the pump flows 510 lb/hr
40 psi the pump flows 410 lb/hr
60 psi the pump flows 362 lb/hr
70 psi the pump flows 340 lb/hr
80 psi the pump flows 310 lb/hr
100 psi the pump flows 250 lb/hr
This makes this pump good for:
At 60 psi this pump is good for 603 flywheel horsepower
At 70 psi this pump is good for 566 flywheel horsepower
At 80 psi this pump is good for 516 flywheel horsepower
At 100 psi this pump is good for 416 flywheel horsepower
As you can see, if you are running high boost this pump really flows up top compared to a standard Walbro 255.
My brothers car and my car both ran out of fuel. I was able to run my EVO RS up to 542 whp on our dyno with the single Modified High Output pump we sell. I had 1200 cc injectors in the car running them at 100%+ duty cycles. The car ran a 9.97 at 142.32 mph like that. I was running our adjustable fuel pressure regulator kit on the stock fuel rail. This is where the testing started as my brother and I were both having the same troubles. Datalogging fuel pressure it was simple to find the problem. We were out of fuel pump.
Neither of us wanted to cut up our perfectly good EVO's to put in fuel cells. Neither of us wanted to run AN lines, I do not like AN lines. They dry out and crack and are prone to leaking after about 5 years. They are heavy, there is no real nice way to install them perfectly on a car. They are expensive and mostly, they just aren't needed.
My quest for a great double pumper(twin intank pumps) set up began. After careful study of the tank assembly and knowing I didn't want to hack into the factory wiring and didn't want to loose the factory fuel gauge I came up with an idea. First I needed more research. I called the best in the industry and got some flow rates of what the factory fuel lines could handle. Pushing fuel through a 5/16" fuel line you can supply enough fuel for 1,000 flywheel horsepower. This is exactly what I wanted to hear. No street EVO that I am going to want to actually drive is going to make that much power. An EVO making that much power is laggy as hell, no fun to drive and is more than likely dedicated for track. At that point, throw the stock fuel tank out, put in a lightweight fuel cell. My main concern was ease of installation and I wanted to be able to keep using as many stock components as I could.
I built the first double pumper set up and installed it in my RS. It worked absolutely amazing. The car went so rich that the car would barely run at WOT. After dialing in the AFR's again, back to where they were, the duty cycles dropped from 113% down to 65%!! At this point I had the adjustable regulator still on the car with the base pressure set at 50 psi. I was also still running the stock fuel rail. At this point it was obvious I didn't need a set of $700 1200 cc injectors in my car. I pulled them out and put in our $310 1,000 cc injectors.
The duty cycles of course went up a little, no problem. Then I decided to put the stock regulator on and see if I could still get by. No problem. The car was now making 590 whp (up from 542 when it ran 9.97) on 1,000 cc injectors, stock fuel rail, stock fuel lines, stock fuel pressure regulator!! The duty cycles were 84%. That's freaking great!
Here is the picture of our double pumper kit:
As you can see the kit is complete. It is a direct plug in. Non of the factory wiring is tapped into. It plugs in directly. We are using the same wiring bulk head fitting that is used in some Formula One fuel cells. The kit includes a pressure switch that is wired in for the 2nd pump only. At 16 psi of boost the 2nd pump is triggered to come on. For those of you that don't know the EVO doesn't have an external fuel filter. So it cannot be changed unless you buy a new fuel pump assembly. This is stupid. Our double pumper comes with a stainless steel inline 5 micron fuel filter. They can be bought seperately so you can change filters as needed in the future.
More data:
Our double pumper with two standard GSS342's in it will flow:
At 60 psi the twin pumps are good for 1200 flywheel horsepower
At 70 psi the twin pumps are good for 1106 flywheel horsepower
At 80 psi the twin pumps are good for 950 flywheel horsepower
At 100 psi the twin pumps are good for 533 flywheel horsepower
Our double pumper with two of our Modified High Output pumps in it will flow:
At 60 psi, 1206 FWHP
At 70 psi, 1133 FWHP
At 80 psi, 1033 FWHP
At 100 psi, 833 FWHP
Now, a note. There is some loss running two pumps together into a common line. I am going to eventually send these pumps out, for my own curiosity, and have them flowed through the Y that we use.
Right now what is important is we have a solution for 99% of EVO owners to go well into the 9's with minimal changes with a very high level of safety as the majority of the factory components are used.
I'm not done yet
Few weeks ago we had a friend/customer in here with his bad *** EVO. Car is set up like our black car, just like it actually. I was starting to dial the car in and at around 740 whp I started having problems. The car was going lean. Didn't make sense. This car had a fuel cell, -10 AN lines, Fuel pressure regulator etc. OH BUT WAIT!! The car was running the stock fuel rail! I went and got a fuel rail and installed it. Problem fixed. This car ended up making 790 whp on our dyno. This is basically the same number our black car made when it ran 8.95 at 163 mph. Let me remind you all, that regardless of what the dyno says we do have the quickest EVO8 in the world This dyno isn't built to give numbers to brag about, it's built for tuning.
This made me think further about what mine and my brothers car was going to need next. What part was going to hold us back next?
Today I brought my EVO to work. Put it on the dyno. Double checked the tune and dialed the AFR's in nice and flat.
Next step was to install a new fuel rail. Replace the stock one.
When I installed the new rail I put a new stock fuel pressure regulator on my car. The regulator was off an EVO9. Exact same part number. My stock regulator was bent slightly on the return outlet, not sure how that happened.
First pull on the dyno the car was LEANER with the new fuel rail. I was puzzled. I checked the vaccum sourse to the regulator, check air temps, coolant temps. All was the same. Made another pull, same leaner AFR's. At this point I am thinking WTF?! I go get my stock EVO8 pressure regulator and bend the outlet back where it is suppose to be, bolt it back onto the new fuel rail and make another pull. This put the AFR exactly where it was with the stock rail. Conclusion is, the stock fuel rail is good enough for up to 740 whp on our dyno, figure about 890 flywheel or Dynojet power.
Something to add to this. I do not like the stock rail. It appears as though the ends are epoxied on, it is poorly designed inside (although I have to say it works and is olive drab green. For what a fuel rail costs, it's not a horrible thing to spend your money on.
My conclusion to this is the stock fuel system, lines, rail, regulator on the car is a very well designed part. The saddle tanks work excellent, especially if you are autocrossing/roadracing. I personally do not want a race car I drive on the street. I want a street car I can race. That is what I have and I am trying to design parts that make a goal like this more affordable and safer for all of us.
Couple more things. Pricing (of course, since I am know as Buschur the Parts Pusher by some who don't really know me).
The double pumper is $450 if I use two standard Walbro pumps in it. If you have one GSS342 pump already you can subtract $85 from that price. If you have both pumps you can subtract $170.
The double pumper is $750 using both of our Modified High Output Walbro's. If you have already bought one from us subtract $200.
We also have fuel rails now. They are plain anodized black. $165.
Of course we have Fuel pressure regulator kits for the EVO, they are $400.
If you are using all of these components with the stock regulator and run out of fuel with your particular injector, switching the adjustable regulator can fix the problem. My next step will be putting the adjustable regulator back on when I get close to maxing out these 1,000 cc injectors again.
Hope you enjoyed the tech.
Last edited by David Buschur; Jan 15, 2007 at 06:24 AM.
Jan 12, 2007, 11:40 AM
#3
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I was so impressed with the new doubler pumper set up from David Buschur when I was out there last week that I ordered one for my drag evo on the spot
I am re-installing my stock fuel tank and will run SRWD class next year using this pump set up and twin HP modified buschur / walbro pumps
I am re-installing my stock fuel tank and will run SRWD class next year using this pump set up and twin HP modified buschur / walbro pumps
Jan 12, 2007, 11:58 AM
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I'm no where near these power levels yet but it's nice to know that you guys have come up with a solution to a known problem and that u guys did the R&D yourselves. I haven't bought anything performance wise yet from you but I have seen your products on a couple of my friends cars and I have to say that everything looks good and fits like it's suppose to. You'll defintely be getting my business!
Jan 12, 2007, 12:03 PM
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Amazing, and to think that I was considering spending 1400 dollars on a 1000 hp fuel system, when I can spend alot less money and get where I want to be.
Thanks for the objective testing David.
Thanks for the objective testing David.
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Jan 12, 2007, 12:18 PM
#9
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Dave,
Thanks for always being direct and honest with that you do.
This is an excellent product and I am glad we have guys like you looking after all of the EVO community.
Thanks for always being direct and honest with that you do.
This is an excellent product and I am glad we have guys like you looking after all of the EVO community.
Jan 12, 2007, 02:02 PM
#11
For those of you that don't know the EVO doesn't have an external fuel filter. So it cannot be changed unless you buy a new fuel pump assembly. This is stupid. Our double pumper comes with a stainless steel inline 5 micron fuel filter. They can be bought seperately so you can change filters as needed in the future.
The EVO does have a fuel filter located on the other side of the thank that is replaceable by itself. The part # is MB129895 and costs about $6.
It is however, small and not the best screen, so the inline filter you supply would probably work much better in your application.
Jan 12, 2007, 02:21 PM
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If we have a standard Walb, could we purchase your kit with just one HO and run 1 ho, 1 standard? If so should the standard pressure pump become the secondary?
Jan 12, 2007, 02:52 PM
#14
Hey David,
The EVO does have a fuel filter located on the other side of the thank that is replaceable by itself. The part # is MB129895 and costs about $6.
It is however, small and not the best screen, so the inline filter you supply would probably work much better in your application.
The EVO does have a fuel filter located on the other side of the thank that is replaceable by itself. The part # is MB129895 and costs about $6.
It is however, small and not the best screen, so the inline filter you supply would probably work much better in your application.
Keith
