The NEW "GT35R" from Buschur Racing..
Feb 14, 2007, 04:37 PM
#151
Compressor efficiency and shaft speed
It is possible to have a more efficient compressor that will increase flow with a reduced shaft speed. This concept was a given for me.
Term "Pressure Head"
There are several formulas/meanings of "pressure head" as it applies to fans, compressors, etc., but in this case it can only be applied to the compressor wheel and "pressure head" does not translate or affect performance on the turbine side as nothing on the turbine side was changed.
You can easily do a google search or pick up your old physics book to better understand this concept as it applies to this scenario.
HP and BackPressure
With all else remaining equal, an increase of hp will generate additional exhaust flow and only have the potential to increase backpressure.
Shaftspeed and backpressure
With all else remaining equal, reduce shaft speed and you reduce the flow. Not a hard concept to understand. Turn a turbine faster it flows more, turn a turbine more slowly and it flows less.
=========================
Based on the scenario and information presented, the reduction in backpressure does not appear to be plausible.
The turbo gods have spoken
It is possible to have a more efficient compressor that will increase flow with a reduced shaft speed. This concept was a given for me.
Term "Pressure Head"
There are several formulas/meanings of "pressure head" as it applies to fans, compressors, etc., but in this case it can only be applied to the compressor wheel and "pressure head" does not translate or affect performance on the turbine side as nothing on the turbine side was changed.
You can easily do a google search or pick up your old physics book to better understand this concept as it applies to this scenario.
HP and BackPressure
With all else remaining equal, an increase of hp will generate additional exhaust flow and only have the potential to increase backpressure.
Shaftspeed and backpressure
With all else remaining equal, reduce shaft speed and you reduce the flow. Not a hard concept to understand. Turn a turbine faster it flows more, turn a turbine more slowly and it flows less.
=========================
Based on the scenario and information presented, the reduction in backpressure does not appear to be plausible.
The turbo gods have spoken
Last edited by Guerillah; Feb 14, 2007 at 04:40 PM.
Feb 14, 2007, 04:54 PM
#153
240z, wars have been fought for thousands of years over Gods. Obviously this is a case similar. Your GOD sucks.
I have datalogs of before and after back pressure readings. So regardless of what you have "googled" (which I find fairly hilarious) I know what happened durinng the testing as I have the logs to not only prove it but the dyno graphs which have already been posted that show the increase in power.
Google search, "my GOD sucks as he only went to college and never really tested anything".
For future reference, don't ask me to give you an explaination of anything. Obviously YOUR ideas are the only correct ones OR the ones you Googled.
In my case only MY ideas are correct but atleast they are backed up by data.
I have datalogs of before and after back pressure readings. So regardless of what you have "googled" (which I find fairly hilarious) I know what happened durinng the testing as I have the logs to not only prove it but the dyno graphs which have already been posted that show the increase in power.
Google search, "my GOD sucks as he only went to college and never really tested anything".
For future reference, don't ask me to give you an explaination of anything. Obviously YOUR ideas are the only correct ones OR the ones you Googled.
In my case only MY ideas are correct but atleast they are backed up by data.
Feb 14, 2007, 05:06 PM
#154
Compressor efficiency and shaft speed
It is possible to have a more efficient compressor that will increase flow with a reduced shaft speed. This concept was a given for me.
Term "Pressure Head"
There are several formulas/meanings of "pressure head" as it applies to fans, compressors, etc., but in this case it can only be applied to the compressor wheel and "pressure head" does not translate or affect performance on the turbine side as nothing on the turbine side was changed.
You can easily do a google search or pick up your old physics book to better understand this concept as it applies to this scenario.
HP and BackPressure
With all else remaining equal, an increase of hp will generate additional exhaust flow and only have the potential to increase backpressure.
Shaftspeed and backpressure
With all else remaining equal, reduce shaft speed and you reduce the flow. Not a hard concept to understand. Turn a turbine faster it flows more, turn a turbine more slowly and it flows less.
=========================
Based on the scenario and information presented, the reduction in backpressure does not appear to be plausible.
The turbo gods have spoken
It is possible to have a more efficient compressor that will increase flow with a reduced shaft speed. This concept was a given for me.
Term "Pressure Head"
There are several formulas/meanings of "pressure head" as it applies to fans, compressors, etc., but in this case it can only be applied to the compressor wheel and "pressure head" does not translate or affect performance on the turbine side as nothing on the turbine side was changed.
You can easily do a google search or pick up your old physics book to better understand this concept as it applies to this scenario.
HP and BackPressure
With all else remaining equal, an increase of hp will generate additional exhaust flow and only have the potential to increase backpressure.
Shaftspeed and backpressure
With all else remaining equal, reduce shaft speed and you reduce the flow. Not a hard concept to understand. Turn a turbine faster it flows more, turn a turbine more slowly and it flows less.
=========================
Based on the scenario and information presented, the reduction in backpressure does not appear to be plausible.
The turbo gods have spoken
Spoken like a true engineer.. This is the difference between learning from experience and from textbooks... There are always situations where the math says something shouldn't work.. And it does.. I'm more inclined to believe David's trial and error data before someone with an unknown reputation.
David does admit when something he is testing isn't working out as planned. Only nobody has waited long enough for his final results.
I've learned over the years that people who are very caught up in terminology and math, have very little actual experience doing this sort of work. At least in forums, its very easy to rattle off a bunch technospeak if your talking over the heads of your peers. He may be onto something, he may not, but he feels that he has something new to offer, and we'll learn about it soon enough. I'm more inclined to believe his results over your googled quotes.
What have you offered the community?
I don't mean to be harsh, but I consider myself a redneck engineer most of the time. I doubt many people would argue that I do understand what I'm talking about even though I treat everyone as a peer and not talk over their heads whenever possible. Dave is the same way.
Last edited by MalibuJack; Feb 14, 2007 at 05:10 PM.
Feb 14, 2007, 05:29 PM
#155
240z, wars have been fought for thousands of years over Gods. Obviously this is a case similar. Your GOD sucks.
I have datalogs of before and after back pressure readings. So regardless of what you have "googled" (which I find fairly hilarious) I know what happened durinng the testing as I have the logs to not only prove it but the dyno graphs which have already been posted that show the increase in power.
Google search, "my GOD sucks as he only went to college and never really tested anything".
For future reference, don't ask me to give you an explaination of anything. Obviously YOUR ideas are the only correct ones OR the ones you Googled.
In my case only MY ideas are correct but atleast they are backed up by data.
I have datalogs of before and after back pressure readings. So regardless of what you have "googled" (which I find fairly hilarious) I know what happened durinng the testing as I have the logs to not only prove it but the dyno graphs which have already been posted that show the increase in power.
Google search, "my GOD sucks as he only went to college and never really tested anything".
For future reference, don't ask me to give you an explaination of anything. Obviously YOUR ideas are the only correct ones OR the ones you Googled.
In my case only MY ideas are correct but atleast they are backed up by data.
As far as turbo gods, we called the head engineer at Garrett and explained the scenario as well as read your response. They were at a loss to explain how you could have decreased backpressure without changing a single thing on the turbine side. Backpressure is created by the restriction on the turbine side and none of that was changed. Even more at loss to do this while decreasing shaft speed, which further restricts the turbine side. Anyway, I read your explanation and choose not to drink the punch.
Here is how I would suggest that you market this turbo...
GT3582PHT (PHT=Pressure Head Technology)
Feb 14, 2007, 05:32 PM
#156
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240z, wars have been fought for thousands of years over Gods. Obviously this is a case similar. Your GOD sucks.
I have datalogs of before and after back pressure readings. So regardless of what you have "googled" (which I find fairly hilarious) I know what happened durinng the testing as I have the logs to not only prove it but the dyno graphs which have already been posted that show the increase in power.
Google search, "my GOD sucks as he only went to college and never really tested anything".
For future reference, don't ask me to give you an explaination of anything. Obviously YOUR ideas are the only correct ones OR the ones you Googled.
In my case only MY ideas are correct but atleast they are backed up by data.
I have datalogs of before and after back pressure readings. So regardless of what you have "googled" (which I find fairly hilarious) I know what happened durinng the testing as I have the logs to not only prove it but the dyno graphs which have already been posted that show the increase in power.
Google search, "my GOD sucks as he only went to college and never really tested anything".
For future reference, don't ask me to give you an explaination of anything. Obviously YOUR ideas are the only correct ones OR the ones you Googled.
In my case only MY ideas are correct but atleast they are backed up by data.
I don't care about the "details" as long as I go fast
Feb 14, 2007, 05:49 PM
#157
A college degree doesn't make you smart and it sure as hell doesn't give you any fabricating skills or the most important thing in life..........common sense. I know some dumb *** people who went to college, sure they know their profession but so do I.
Degrees don't impress me, results do. Dave doesn't get paid to post technical data. He gets paid to get results and provide that service to consumers. He is going to do what gets him paid, and he's going to do what it takes to maintain his business' profitability. That's the American way. The fact that this is a "technical forum," as people insist on pointing out (which I find amusing for the most part), is of little importance.
For anyone with half a brain, this forum has a signal to noise ratio that is scarce to be endured... The fact that anyone with any real knowledge trudges through the daily bull**** to provide any real information, no matter how unsatisfying to those too lazy to acquire it with their own efforts, is worthy of praise.
If you require more data, don't cry like a helpless ****box that others don't provide it for you free of charge, go out and get it for yourself. I wanted to see what a 20gLT would move for air, so I bought one and tested it. Worked much better than waiting for someone else to do it. And I can't ***** about the results or the way the data was collected.
Old school DSMers had no choice but to test parts for themselves, the information just wasn't readily available like it is today. The "me generation" raised on the internet rather than in the garage has an extremely difficult time with this concept...Sorry for the rant, just passing time in between spoon feedings.
Feb 14, 2007, 06:01 PM
#158
Compressor efficiency and shaft speed
It is possible to have a more efficient compressor that will increase flow with a reduced shaft speed. This concept was a given for me.
Term "Pressure Head"
There are several formulas/meanings of "pressure head" as it applies to fans, compressors, etc., but in this case it can only be applied to the compressor wheel and "pressure head" does not translate or affect performance on the turbine side as nothing on the turbine side was changed.
You can easily do a google search or pick up your old physics book to better understand this concept as it applies to this scenario.
HP and BackPressure
With all else remaining equal, an increase of hp will generate additional exhaust flow and only have the potential to increase backpressure.
Shaftspeed and backpressure
With all else remaining equal, reduce shaft speed and you reduce the flow. Not a hard concept to understand. Turn a turbine faster it flows more, turn a turbine more slowly and it flows less.
=========================
Based on the scenario and information presented, the reduction in backpressure does not appear to be plausible.
The turbo gods have spoken
It is possible to have a more efficient compressor that will increase flow with a reduced shaft speed. This concept was a given for me.
Term "Pressure Head"
There are several formulas/meanings of "pressure head" as it applies to fans, compressors, etc., but in this case it can only be applied to the compressor wheel and "pressure head" does not translate or affect performance on the turbine side as nothing on the turbine side was changed.
You can easily do a google search or pick up your old physics book to better understand this concept as it applies to this scenario.
HP and BackPressure
With all else remaining equal, an increase of hp will generate additional exhaust flow and only have the potential to increase backpressure.
Shaftspeed and backpressure
With all else remaining equal, reduce shaft speed and you reduce the flow. Not a hard concept to understand. Turn a turbine faster it flows more, turn a turbine more slowly and it flows less.
=========================
Based on the scenario and information presented, the reduction in backpressure does not appear to be plausible.
The turbo gods have spoken
Personally I think you need to stop reverse engineering the darn turbo by looking stuff up on the internet can calling people about it. Youve made a lot of generalizations and assumptions, not to mention pissed a lot of people off.
Obviously the turbo works. It uses a more efficient compressor. If you REALLY want to know how it works, take the information and come up with your own plausible solution rather than badgering people like Dave who don't care enough to figure it out beyond the detailed testing he did.
Feb 14, 2007, 06:07 PM
#160
Its a shame that this thread took an off-topic break.. But I wanted to add that although I don't always agree with some of Dave's opinions, I do run quite a few of his products because they work well, actually now that I think about it.. Other than engine managment and some one-off parts, I run mostly Buschur parts.. Not that my opinion or level of expertise means anything (as it really shouldn't mean much, you should do your research on what works) but I will stand up and defend someone if I feel their being unfairly singled out.
Most of the biggest innovations in the world came from tinkerers, not engineers..
Most of the biggest innovations in the world came from tinkerers, not engineers..
Feb 14, 2007, 06:33 PM
#162
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My mother always told me it isn't polite to tease the animals at the zoo. I guess I should stop throwing rocks at the monkey cage.
As far as turbo gods, we called the head engineer at Garrett and explained the scenario as well as read your response. They were at a loss to explain how you could have decreased backpressure without changing a single thing on the turbine side. Backpressure is created by the restriction on the turbine side and none of that was changed. Even more at loss to do this while decreasing shaft speed, which further restricts the turbine side. Anyway, I read your explanation and choose not to drink the punch.
Here is how I would suggest that you market this turbo...
GT3582PHT (PHT=Pressure Head Technology)
As far as turbo gods, we called the head engineer at Garrett and explained the scenario as well as read your response. They were at a loss to explain how you could have decreased backpressure without changing a single thing on the turbine side. Backpressure is created by the restriction on the turbine side and none of that was changed. Even more at loss to do this while decreasing shaft speed, which further restricts the turbine side. Anyway, I read your explanation and choose not to drink the punch.
Here is how I would suggest that you market this turbo...
GT3582PHT (PHT=Pressure Head Technology)
With a comment like that, are you trying to invoke a response from Dave that will get him in a timeout again? You do seem to have some sort of agenda, what is it?
Agent Maulder is that you?
Feb 14, 2007, 08:05 PM
#163
Please spare me the do it yourself and figure it out yourself. I have been fabricating and tuning for 10 years and only as a hobby. Had articles published in Corvette Fever and Modified Magazine so spare me the real world experience garbage. Try to think for yourself and quite being minions to certain vendors on this forum.
His results and explanations are suspect at best based on the information given. If you don't want technical debate then post your pimp adds in the classified section. I promise not to challenge anything you say in that forum.
MalibuJack, whether you are a redneck, drink beer and buy Buschur parts is of little consequence to me, I think you are a sharp guy based on your posts in the ECU flash forum. However, to say he is being treated unfairly is ridiculous. He is treated like a queen compared to how he treats others on this technical forum.
BTW, I don't think I am better than anyone on this forum. If you don't agree with me then that is fine and hopefully you will state your reasons. From this we can have a debate and hopefully find the answers. By no means am I always right and this forum is a place for us to learn, not be subject to shameless pimp advertisements from bully vendors. If you don't agree I will not come back and call you names and say, "stay tuned next week when 240Z TwinTurbo says...YADA YADA YADA."
Here are some pics from fabrication work I did in my carport as a hobby. This is one of many projects I have done for friends. If only I had some real world experience I could have done a better job.
http://www.putfile.com/rb26powered74zcar/images/38187
Feb 14, 2007, 10:50 PM
#164
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For me I'm afraid its not good enought to just be told things work , I want to know why and if I'm paying for it expect no less .
Going to get shot for this but IMO twin GT2876R's (actually GT28/T04S 48T) on an RB26 are going to make lag city .
Cheers .
Going to get shot for this but IMO twin GT2876R's (actually GT28/T04S 48T) on an RB26 are going to make lag city .
Cheers .
