Bad ASS EVO on E85..........
Jan 29, 2007, 01:11 PM
#16
deadbeatrec, the car has 11,000 miles on it now, the car has had our Stage 4, GT35R on it since it had 500 miles on it. Been running 25+ psi everyday. The tune is obviously important. He's had no issues with the car.
I have not done any stock turbo'd cars with E85. It would be easy to do. Doing a dual Stage map would be possible if you had the flashing cable. You'd just have to switch maps.
I have not done any stock turbo'd cars with E85. It would be easy to do. Doing a dual Stage map would be possible if you had the flashing cable. You'd just have to switch maps.
Jan 29, 2007, 01:13 PM
#17
David,
Great job. I think the use of E85 should become more than a trend, it should become a political movement among tuner crowd. It is cleaner, renewable, and made in America. I wish the big dogs (SEMA, JEGS, HKS, Tire Rack, SCCA, NASA, IDRA, Garrett, Greddy, NOPI, whatever) would try to use Ethanol E85 to de-crimialize the tuner scene somehow.
I know that was a kinda wierd ramble, but I'm sick of feeling like a law-breaker just because I mod my Evo. Hod Rodding is American as apple pie and cowboys. Maybe clean burning E85 can give us some leverage as a community.
Once again, great job on the tune.
Great job. I think the use of E85 should become more than a trend, it should become a political movement among tuner crowd. It is cleaner, renewable, and made in America. I wish the big dogs (SEMA, JEGS, HKS, Tire Rack, SCCA, NASA, IDRA, Garrett, Greddy, NOPI, whatever) would try to use Ethanol E85 to de-crimialize the tuner scene somehow.
I know that was a kinda wierd ramble, but I'm sick of feeling like a law-breaker just because I mod my Evo. Hod Rodding is American as apple pie and cowboys. Maybe clean burning E85 can give us some leverage as a community.
Once again, great job on the tune.
Jan 29, 2007, 01:34 PM
#21
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e85 is $1.64/gal here in SE Missouri, compared to $2.04/gal for 93.
So for 93 at 20 mpg the cost per mile is $2.04/20=10.2 cents per mile, while e85 (assuming the 20% mpg loss) is $1.64/16=10.25 cents per mile. So the cost ends up being the same for 105 oct vs. 93 oct.
What will suffer though, is the total range between fill-ups; ~290 for 93 vs ~232 for e85. That seems to be the only real trade-off, after the initial set-up cost (pump/injectors/fuel control).
So for 93 at 20 mpg the cost per mile is $2.04/20=10.2 cents per mile, while e85 (assuming the 20% mpg loss) is $1.64/16=10.25 cents per mile. So the cost ends up being the same for 105 oct vs. 93 oct.
What will suffer though, is the total range between fill-ups; ~290 for 93 vs ~232 for e85. That seems to be the only real trade-off, after the initial set-up cost (pump/injectors/fuel control).
Last edited by AWDSM2; Jan 30, 2007 at 11:05 AM.
Jan 29, 2007, 01:48 PM
#23
The stock shortblock is very strong in these cars. The biggest thing to watch is the tune and the RPM. I have no worries of this car having problems as long as the RPM is limited to 7500 at this power level. The dyno sheet, we ran the car to 7200 rpm.
This car was on STRAIGHT E85. We drained the fuel tanks and put 10 gallons in the car. We also removed his alky injection kit from the car so he can sell it, so it wasn't even on the car.
The 105 octane rating of this fuel is very deceiving. I'd compare this very very closely to more like what I can get on C16. It is amazing.
What I see right now as limits is the fuel system itself. Becuase you have to run more fuel when you use this you run out of pump, injectors much quicker than on straight gasoline. Kieth's car is equipped with 1,000 cc fuel injectors and our twin intank pumps. Stock fuel lines, stock rail, stock regulator. The injectors are at 90% duty cycles.
This project was a complete blast. I haven't had this much amazement over a car since last week when we did Tom's 645 whp EVO9
!! haha I guess I have been amazed too much lately! So, before Tom's car it was a LONG time since I was this amazed.
A lot of research went into this project which made actually completing it pretty much a breeze. Keith was here at 9 am. We installed a FMIC, installed the double pumpers, drained and filled the fuel tank, dyno tuned the car and had him back on the road by 2 pm.
I have the car running pretty damn rich right now to be safe and see how things go with the tune/car. I will be able to pull some fuel back out of it in the future and free up some more room for those 1,000 cc injectors. For now we both felt we would be better off rich and see what happens.
Keith did a lot of homework on this project too. I want to thank him for "pushing" me some of this job. Had he not stayed after me we probably wouldn't have finished it up and had it turned out so sweet.
We will probably be adding another fuel tank to Keith's car in the future so he can transfer another 8-10 gallons of E85 into his tank if he is in an area where the fuel is hard to find or on a trip so he can extend the distance he can run.
This car was on STRAIGHT E85. We drained the fuel tanks and put 10 gallons in the car. We also removed his alky injection kit from the car so he can sell it, so it wasn't even on the car.
The 105 octane rating of this fuel is very deceiving. I'd compare this very very closely to more like what I can get on C16. It is amazing.
What I see right now as limits is the fuel system itself. Becuase you have to run more fuel when you use this you run out of pump, injectors much quicker than on straight gasoline. Kieth's car is equipped with 1,000 cc fuel injectors and our twin intank pumps. Stock fuel lines, stock rail, stock regulator. The injectors are at 90% duty cycles.
This project was a complete blast. I haven't had this much amazement over a car since last week when we did Tom's 645 whp EVO9
!! haha I guess I have been amazed too much lately! So, before Tom's car it was a LONG time since I was this amazed.A lot of research went into this project which made actually completing it pretty much a breeze. Keith was here at 9 am. We installed a FMIC, installed the double pumpers, drained and filled the fuel tank, dyno tuned the car and had him back on the road by 2 pm.
I have the car running pretty damn rich right now to be safe and see how things go with the tune/car. I will be able to pull some fuel back out of it in the future and free up some more room for those 1,000 cc injectors. For now we both felt we would be better off rich and see what happens.
Keith did a lot of homework on this project too. I want to thank him for "pushing" me some of this job. Had he not stayed after me we probably wouldn't have finished it up and had it turned out so sweet.
We will probably be adding another fuel tank to Keith's car in the future so he can transfer another 8-10 gallons of E85 into his tank if he is in an area where the fuel is hard to find or on a trip so he can extend the distance he can run.
Jan 29, 2007, 01:58 PM
#24
David, since E85 is 85% alcohol and 15% gasoline, doesn't that mean that by adding 3 gallons of E85 to a tank of 91 octane gas, that you would have 2.5 gallons of alcohol and 12 gallons of gasoline in a 15 gallon tank. That would give you a 93.5 octane rating (2.5 X 105) + (12.5 X 91) = 1400/15 gallons = 93.33
If it can be mixed like that, I wonder how the 20% alcohol mixture would work on a street tuned car. Just trying to throw you another curve ball.
If it can be mixed like that, I wonder how the 20% alcohol mixture would work on a street tuned car. Just trying to throw you another curve ball.
Jan 29, 2007, 02:12 PM
#25
David, since E85 is 85% alcohol and 15% gasoline, doesn't that mean that by adding 3 gallons of E85 to a tank of 91 octane gas, that you would have 2.5 gallons of alcohol and 12 gallons of gasoline in a 15 gallon tank. That would give you a 93.5 octane rating (2.5 X 105) + (12.5 X 91) = 1400/15 gallons = 93.33
If it can be mixed like that, I wonder how the 20% alcohol mixture would work on a street tuned car. Just trying to throw you another curve ball.
If it can be mixed like that, I wonder how the 20% alcohol mixture would work on a street tuned car. Just trying to throw you another curve ball.
also, what was the duty cycle for the injectors with the e85??
Jan 29, 2007, 02:12 PM
#26
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This project is great. I have been interested in being able to run E85 for some time now but have not seen anyone do a project with posted results like this yet. Am very interested in updates on this car. And also Dave, wondering what you think the 20glt would be able to run with this fuel (boost, hp, etc.) That is a direction I am very interested in pursuing.
Jan 29, 2007, 02:25 PM
#27
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I have been running strictly E85 since early December. I started a thread on it in the Ecuflash forum. Prior to the switch I had been getting around 18-22 mpg and I am now getting around 15-16 mpg on E85. I typically end up having to fill up after 180-190 miles, which is slightly inconvenient, but it's worth the extra power. My latest data log showed 504 lb-ft of torque and 465 hp as calculated in DataLogLab. It's good to see an experienced and well-respected tuner getting into the E85 game. Hopefully we'll start to see the full benefits of this fuel as more tuners get involved with it.
-Paul
-Paul
Jan 29, 2007, 04:15 PM
#28
9sec9, do you have E85 by you? If so I bet I can build a map for you and you can run it. That would let you loose a few more pounds on the car and take the alky kit off the car, sell it to someone else. Pretty sure I can make it work easily. I wouldn't advise doing it the way you suggested with mixing it into the 91 octane. I would have loved to done this on your car. I bet we can make close to 600 with your car on E85.
smogrunner, I see what you are saying and after today will be a guy that pushes this E85 because it kicks ***. I don't see the image of our scene changing though. It's the people involved in it that give it the rep it has, not the fuel we are running.
jordo, I was not aware there is a winter grade of E85. Duty cycles are talked about earlier in the thread.
bwesely82, you could max out a 20gLT on this fuel. It easily supported 30 psi today.
smogrunner, I see what you are saying and after today will be a guy that pushes this E85 because it kicks ***. I don't see the image of our scene changing though. It's the people involved in it that give it the rep it has, not the fuel we are running.
jordo, I was not aware there is a winter grade of E85. Duty cycles are talked about earlier in the thread.
bwesely82, you could max out a 20gLT on this fuel. It easily supported 30 psi today.
