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Old Feb 5, 2007, 09:14 AM
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constant smoke regardless of rpm...the higher the rpm the more smoke...even at idle it smokes out of the exhaust and from the exhaust manifold as the oil is getting burtn in the exhaust
Old Feb 5, 2007, 09:26 AM
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Well I told you that RRE can wouldnt properly ventilate your crank case but you didnt believe me. I would just put the stock PCV valve back on and see how it runs. I wouldnt panic. I do think it is odd there was oil in your intake though as you have the Buschur unit and therefore no hose from the valve cover to the intake. That means oil would actually have to go through the turbo and into the intake. If you need a hand tearing into it later gimme a call.
Old Feb 5, 2007, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by TURBevO8
Well I told you that RRE can wouldnt properly ventilate your crank case but you didnt believe me. I would just put the stock PCV valve back on and see how it runs. I wouldnt panic. I do think it is odd there was oil in your intake though as you have the Buschur unit and therefore no hose from the valve cover to the intake. That means oil would actually have to go through the turbo and into the intake. If you need a hand tearing into it later gimme a call.
haha, thats exactly what i was thinking when I saw the oil in the intake...

The oil in the intake means that the oil is coming from the exhaust manifold....so a seal is probably blown out because of the excess pressure in the crankcase...

It is just weird that this would happen as I have been driving really, really slow with no boost for about 2 weeks and then this happens when I am sitting at a stoplight while on the brake....haha

Whatever. I hope its not the motor, but well see. I already called Buschur to see what i am looking at. Luckily my friend is loosing his liscense on friday so I might have a donor car while mine is down
Old Feb 5, 2007, 11:00 AM
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Well I got to thinking and it comes down to this. You have oil in your intake tube. It had to come from somewhere. The only way into that tube is via your turbo since you don’t run a line from your valve cover to that tube. The housings are independent so that says to me it had to come from the turbine housing to reach the intake because even if you did have oil in your exhaust it wouldn’t reach the intake. So then how did it get into the turbine housing? I would think via the center section via an oil line. I may not be right but in trying to isolate the problem I don’t see what else it could be at this time.



PS: How many times can you say “via” in one stupid post? Lol….

Last edited by TURBevO8; Feb 5, 2007 at 03:47 PM.
Old Feb 5, 2007, 11:02 AM
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/\ that maes sense, and so does this..

Code:
The shaft in my turbo feels loose. How much freeplay should I have? 
 While this specification does vary from one brand to another and 
rule of thumb is less than .030" radial freeplay and less that .002" axial freeplay. 
This amount of freeplay is required to allow the bearings to "float" in a 
pressurized film of oil while the engine is running. The flow of oil through 
the clearance around the bearings is what helps the bearings stay cool. 
This oil film around the bearings also help dampen vibrations that occur
 to the rotating assembly as it moves through it range of RPM. Ball bearing
 turbochargers do not have this pressurized film of oil around the bearings; 
this is why they are somewhat more noisy than floating journal bearing turbos. 
 
 
 My tubo is smoking and it's brand new. The shaft has normal play in it so
 is one of my seals blown?  The term "blown seal" is widely used to describe
 a turbo that has oil coming out of it. In reality a turbocharger seal cannot 
become damaged until the freeplay of the shaft has increased to the point 
where the blades of the turbocharger have been rubbing against the housings.
 Blade contact usually requires more than .035" of side to side movement of the
 shaft. In some cases it is even possible to rub the blades and still not damage
 the seals. If the turbo is new and the shaft isn't loose and bouncing off the 
housings, but oil is coming out of it chances are you can correct the problem 
without even taking the turbo back off the car. 

The seals within the turbo are not meant to hold back a bearing housing that 
has become full of oil. They are designed to sling the oil mist and spray within 
the bearing housing away from the point where the shaft comes out each end.
 If the bearing housing becomes full of oil it will ooze out past even brand new
 seal rings. 

The oil should freely drain out of the bearing housing as quickly as the engine 
supplies it. This is why the drain tube is so much larger than the supply tube. 
Gravity is the only force moving the oil out of the turbocharger. Any slight 
restriction in the oil drain tube, even a small silicone dingle berry, can slightly 
impede the draining of the oil and cause oil to back up into the bearing housing. 

The crankcase vents are the second largest cause of oil loss from a good 
condition turbocharger. The seals in the turbocharger were designed with
 expectation that the pressure inside the compressor and turbine housing
 will always be greater than the pressure in the bearing housing. If this is
 ever not the case then oil will come out pass the seals. A restricted crankcase
 vent will cause this to happen. If the amount of ring blowby exceeds the ability 
of the crank vents to release the pressure positive pressure will build within
 the crankcase. This pressure within the crankcase can exceed the pressure
 inside the compressor and turbine housings under some operating conditions 
resulting in oil being driven pass the seals by the improperly biased pressure 
gradient across the seal rings. In severe cases it may be necessary to introduce 
vacuum pumps to deal with crankcase pressure, but these would be very severe
 high boost applications where even low percentages of blowby produce a high
 volume of crankcase vent flow.  

this is "via" forced performance's FAQ site
Makes me think a little more optimisticly...

Last edited by kmcconn9; Feb 5, 2007 at 11:07 AM.
Old Feb 5, 2007, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by kmcconn9
/\ that maes sense, and so does this..

Code:
The shaft in my turbo feels loose. How much freeplay should I have? 
 While this specification does vary from one brand to another and rule of thumb is less than .030" radial freeplay and less that .002" axial freeplay. 
This amount of freeplay is required to allow the bearings to "float" in a pressurized film of oil while the engine is running. The flow of oil through the clearance around the bearings is what helps the bearings stay cool. This oil film around the bearings also help dampen vibrations that occur to the rotating assembly as it moves through it range of RPM. Ball bearing turbochargers do not have this pressurized film of oil around the bearings; this is why they are somewhat more noisy than floating journal bearing turbos. 
 
 
 My tubo is smoking and it's brand new. The shaft has normal play in it so is one of my seals blown? 
 The term "blown seal" is widely used to describe a turbo that has oil coming out of it. In reality a turbocharger seal cannot become damaged until the freeplay of the shaft has increased to the point where the blades of the turbocharger have been rubbing against the housings. Blade contact usually requires more than .035" of side to side movement of the shaft. In some cases it is even possible to rub the blades and still not damage the seals. 
If the turbo is new and the shaft isn't loose and bouncing off the housings, but oil is coming out of it chances are you can correct the problem without even taking the turbo back off the car. 

The seals within the turbo are not meant to hold back a bearing housing that has become full of oil. They are designed to sling the oil mist and spray within the bearing housing away from the point where the shaft comes out each end. If the bearing housing becomes full of oil it will ooze out past even brand new seal rings. 

The oil should freely drain out of the bearing housing as quickly as the engine supplies it. This is why the drain tube is so much larger than the supply tube. Gravity is the only force moving the oil out of the turbocharger. Any slight restriction in the oil drain tube, even a small silicone dingle berry, can slightly impede the draining of the oil and cause oil to back up into the bearing housing. 

The crankcase vents are the second largest cause of oil loss from a good condition turbocharger. The seals in the turbocharger were designed with expectation that the pressure inside the compressor and turbine housing will always be greater than the pressure in the bearing housing. If this is ever not the case then oil will come out pass the seals. A restricted crankcase vent will cause this to happen. If the amount of ring blowby exceeds the ability of the crank vents to release the pressure positive pressure will build within the crankcase. This pressure within the crankcase can exceed the pressure inside the compressor and turbine housings under some operating conditions resulting in oil being driven pass the seals by the improperly biased pressure gradient across the seal rings. In severe cases it may be necessary to introduce vacuum pumps to deal with crankcase pressure, but these would be very severe high boost applications where even low percentages of blowby produce a high volume of crankcase vent flow.  

this is "via" forced performance's FAQ site
Makes me think a little more optimisticly...
I would have to say it sounds like excessive blow by the piston rings, If not maybe clogged or blocked oil return line from the turbo. I dont beleive its from the RRE catch can. I have had that can on my 445whp 1G with no PCV for over a yr and no problems. Hope for the best.
Old Feb 5, 2007, 11:54 AM
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compression test......
Old Feb 5, 2007, 12:21 PM
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compression test will be done tonight...after I get home from work
Old Feb 5, 2007, 03:55 PM
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Well to me it sounds like your RRE can set up is what caused it. Now that may not be a fact but I would suspect it is the problem. I mean it makes sense that the vacuum caused by the engine helps the blow by escape but more importantly it constantly ventilates the crank case by sucking the vapor out. If for no other reason than the car comes stock like this so why not assume the Mitu engineers knew what they were doing? I mean if the only reason for the PCV was to eliminate the chance of emissions escaping as some people say, I am sure they couldve come up with a better way to "filter" that crap before it went into the atmosphere rather than force it into the combustion chamber. Maybe this is BS but in my feable mind it makes sense so I am sticking with it. Let me know how things go...
Old Feb 5, 2007, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by kmcconn9
I will be doing a compression test tonight along with installing the stock pcv valve back on and routing it back to the intake manifold.

I believe people usually see 175 accross the board for compression tests if I remember correctly..

I checked the IC pipes and all are tight with no leaks (wo7uldnt be smoking this bad but thought I would just double check)

Any other suggestions?

If you can do a leak down test its better than a compression test
Old Feb 5, 2007, 05:47 PM
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/\ good to know...thanks
Old Feb 5, 2007, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by c_penson
If you can do a leak down test its better than a compression test
Very true and it will tell, show you where problem is if its mechanical. It could be a oil return line causing oil to back up in the CHRA of the turbo.
I had a freinds one 1g do the same thing and did a compression test and he had a low 1st cyl at 65 psi and 140s for the rest accross the board.(1gs have 7.8to1 comp stock). It started after he only drove it 3 times in 4 months after storage. He wasnt on it heard when it happened to him. Hopefully thats not the case for you.

Last edited by whitey4d; Feb 5, 2007 at 06:38 PM.
Old Feb 5, 2007, 10:32 PM
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well that dosent seem to be the case here...

I re-installed a new stock pcv valve with new hoses and clamps, checked over everything many times, started the car and everything is fine. A/F is right on, oil pressure is perfect, idle is stable and consistent, and NO SMOKE....so hopefully the problem has been solved..

By the way I deleted the RRE catch can and just ran the other vent to the ground...
Old Feb 6, 2007, 04:31 AM
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good to hear
Old Feb 6, 2007, 05:41 AM
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/\ yea thanks. I am going to drive it to school today and see what happens. I drove it around last night for 30 minutes and everything seems fine. When I build boost smoke starts coming from the exhaust which is probably the excess oil being burnt off from th e places that it shouldnt have been and parts that I couldnt get to to wipe off.

I will report back at the end of the day...


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