Stock shortblock, stock head, new record numbers for the EVO Green turbo
Apr 12, 2007, 08:00 AM
#62
I might be more inclined to get the AEM EMS but here at 2007 these are the issues I STILL see with the AEM EMS.
Again ALL of the above can be avoided by a GREAT tuner, but there are very few and far in-between and not one of them will take responsibility if the engine pops. And are VERY quick to point their fingers at the client. It is VERY easy to Pump up The AEM EMS when you have nothing to lose.
- Poor Startup
- Lessened Throttle Response
- No significant gain on a stock turbo as shown by my COUNTLESS trips to E-Town despite "Higher Dyno Readings and better timing control"
- Mike1023 Pump Gas E-Flash 11.23 @ 120 MPH, Stock Turbo Stock Engine (272's) and he hasn't blown up, my guess is because of the stock Knock control. Maybe if tuners just focused on Tuning a Flash vs a knee-jerk statement of buying a Two Thousand dollar piece of hardware and hoping the tuner knows what he is doing.
- There are MANY MANY 11 second Pump Gas Stock Turbo Evos on a Flash.
- Tuners taking NO responsibility for when an Engine goes Kaboom, they tune it, they are responsible, especially with a stock turbo. I cannot tell you how many Evo owners I know that foot the 2 grand plus install and tuning just to have their engine blow and then the Tuner stating....
- "Dude you beat on your car, it's your fault, now to bad mouth you on the forums and since I have a Vender status, I will have your remarks removed!"
"Dude you were making too much power with your stock block and stock turbo!!! Let us build you motor and re-tune it!!!" - Cold starts constantly need to be fiddled with
- MAP is not as accurate as a MAF, it estimates Airflow vs. actually reading it.
Again ALL of the above can be avoided by a GREAT tuner, but there are very few and far in-between and not one of them will take responsibility if the engine pops. And are VERY quick to point their fingers at the client. It is VERY easy to Pump up The AEM EMS when you have nothing to lose.
This is all depending on the tune and the tuner. My car starts everytime I get in it with no issues. There are 5 employees here (David, Daniel, Trent, Nick and Myself) that run the EMS. Not to mention our time attack car and drag car. I can gurantee you that if there were issues with the driveability, startup, etc... that this would not be the case as David would not mess with our cars daily.
Anyone who has had their EMS tuned by David will tell you their car runs just fine with no issues. Almost just like stock. I will tell you that with no BS.
I do not know where the issue is with this. The stock ECU has the same throttle response as the AEM or so it seems to me. Try changing your upper intercooler plumbing or check the map sensor.
For those running a stock turbo I normally do not recommend running an AEM as its really not needed with the stock turbo. For those running a 20G-9LT, 3065, 35R , etc.... I would recommend it for better results.
*Mike1023 Pump Gas E-Flash 11.23 @ 120 MPH, Stock Turbo Stock Engine (272's) and he hasn't blown up, my guess is because of the stock Knock control. Maybe if tuners just focused on Tuning a Flash vs a knee-jerk statement of buying a Two Thousand dollar piece of hardware and hoping the tuner knows what he is doing.
This is true.
*Tuners taking NO responsibility for when an Engine goes Kaboom, they tune it, they are responsible, especially with a stock turbo. I cannot tell you how many Evo owners I know that foot the 2 grand plus install and tuning just to have their engine blow and then the Tuner stating....
Again.... it depends on the tuner. Granted if your car is tuned when its 85 degrees out and you have some issues with startup when it drops to 35 then yes a few changes need to be made. Not a big deal. A good tuner can do this through email if the customer lives to far away to come back for a convenient trip.
I can tell you after my car sat all winter (in rigid Ohio winter) in an unheated facility when I went to go start it it fired right up. I came back and told David how impressed I was as I personally thought I would have an issue with it starting. I did not have any issues.
Again ALL of the above can be avoided by a GREAT tuner, but there are very few and far in-between and not one of them will take responsibility if the engine pops. And are VERY quick to point their fingers at the client. It is VERY easy to Pump up The AEM EMS when you have nothing to lose.
As for the stock ECU.... Big Al has tuned the Evo stock ECU's for what seems like forever with great success even with larger turbo's, different combinations, etc.... His work speaks for itself as well as the E.T's that the cars he tunes run. I have seen him tune ALOT of cars. Definately knows his stuff.
The point David was trying to make is that he WILL make more power with the EMS than the stock ECU. I see him do it almost everyday. Bottom line is you just have more tuneability with a standalone.
Apr 12, 2007, 08:08 AM
#63
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I might be more inclined to get the AEM EMS but here at 2007 these are the issues I STILL see with the AEM EMS.
Again ALL of the above can be avoided by a GREAT tuner, but there are very few and far in-between and not one of them will take responsibility if the engine pops. And are VERY quick to point their fingers at the client. It is VERY easy to Pump up The AEM EMS when you have nothing to lose.
- Poor Startup
- Lessened Throttle Response
- No significant gain on a stock turbo as shown by my COUNTLESS trips to E-Town despite "Higher Dyno Readings and better timing control"
- Mike1023 Pump Gas E-Flash 11.23 @ 120 MPH, Stock Turbo Stock Engine (272's) and he hasn't blown up, my guess is because of the stock Knock control. Maybe if tuners just focused on Tuning a Flash vs a knee-jerk statement of buying a Two Thousand dollar piece of hardware and hoping the tuner knows what he is doing.
- There are MANY MANY 11 second Pump Gas Stock Turbo Evos on a Flash.
- Tuners taking NO responsibility for when an Engine goes Kaboom, they tune it, they are responsible, especially with a stock turbo. I cannot tell you how many Evo owners I know that foot the 2 grand plus install and tuning just to have their engine blow and then the Tuner stating....
- "Dude you beat on your car, it's your fault, now to bad mouth you on the forums and since I have a Vender status, I will have your remarks removed!"
"Dude you were making too much power with your stock block and stock turbo!!! Let us build you motor and re-tune it!!!" - Cold starts constantly need to be fiddled with
- MAP is not as accurate as a MAF, it estimates Airflow vs. actually reading it.
Again ALL of the above can be avoided by a GREAT tuner, but there are very few and far in-between and not one of them will take responsibility if the engine pops. And are VERY quick to point their fingers at the client. It is VERY easy to Pump up The AEM EMS when you have nothing to lose.
That is the KEY with an AEM. A great tuner! I personally know of a dodge stealth RT (twin turbo AWD evo3 16gs, aem, and alky injection) that idles better than stock, never has an issue starting and will run 11's flat all day long with no problems in 100 degree sweaty midwest heat.... the secret? a brilliant tuner! and nearly 50,000 miles of daily driving for tweaks and improvements... So yeah, it took a long time to get the car in this state of tune, but once it is there it is awesome!. i swear it feels as smooth and torque rich as a V-12 Jaguar!
THere is so much control with an AEM it is rediculous! as far as knock control being a joke, i bet that guy has only tuned with an AFC,, ( i see a little knock,, lets richen it up....) turn it off, turn it on, specify thresholds, degrees timing pulled, enrichment,,, and more...
With the previously mentioned stealth, i know we twiddled with a lot of little features within the AEM that made huge differences in power...
I would like to mention them, but i won't 'cause a lot of people have no clue about them... even some tuners! I will say this however,,, there are some parameters within the AEM that are based of a ford 5.0 naturally aspirated motor.. ( atleast they were a few years ago, and I have not seen anything recently to say otherwise.. and it is common to several of AEM's boxes...) clearly a heavily boosted 4, or even the 6 cyl engine will behave much differently...
So after i babbled for so long, the KEy to an AEM is a brilliant tuner.... one who does more than tweak just the VE tables and timing... someone who really understands the innner workings of combustion... Because, as I said, there is a lot going on in that little box!
Apr 12, 2007, 08:40 AM
#64
Originally Posted by Jrod@Buschur
If im not mistake...Mike's car is a TOTALLY gutted car so the weight will definately play a roll in the E.T.
Apr 12, 2007, 08:50 AM
#67
Thanks for the post Jarrod and addressing some of the questions/concerns.
I am not sure how many AEM EMS's I have tuned at this point. It is what I prefer to tune because I tune so many. I have tuned Mustangs, Vipers, 300ZX's, Supra's, DSM's, EVO's etc. I have NEVER had a car blow up while I was tuning it. I have however had one come apart that was my fault after it was tuned, that car belonged to a guy named Matt. Matt started as a customer and has become more a friend than customer at this point. He was not sponsored at the time this happened and I covered the entire re-build 100% free. He is now sponsored by us.
IF WE MAKE A MISTAKE, no matter how big a dick you are when you confront us about it, WE WILL 100% OF THE TIME COVER THE MISTAKE FREE TO YOU. That's how we operate. End of story.
This goes for anything we do here, engines, heads, turbos, exhaust, tuning, I don't care, we stand behind it. Everyone can make a mistake, what seperates us from many other companies is IF we do make a mistake, we stand behind it and handle it. If the company you are dealing with isn't treating you that way maybe it's time to switch companies.
I am sure there are people on this board that can chime in with us fixing something we did.
As for the AEM. It is a STAND ALONE ENGINE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM. It is only as good as the guy tuning it. Are there issues from time to time with it? Yes. Is the cold start always dead on the money? No. There are a bunch of "tuners" of the AEM that will lead you to believe they have all the issues on every single car they do fixed 100%. Well I can tell you for a fact they are liars. One place in particular hasn't really got a clue what it takes to make a car start when it's cold. It's easy to say it when you live and tune cars in an area that doesn't get down to 0F and colder. The base maps will start a car down to 35F or so. Get in a crappy climate like ours and then brag about how good you are.
The first year we were tuning AEM's winter flat out sucked. Every car got pushed in the shop, warmed up and then started. The next year it was better but still pushed a lot of cars in the shop so they'd start. This last winter I think we had ONE car all winter that I just couldn't get to fire outside.
Each injector size makes for a new set of changes to get the car to start when it is extremely cold.
I am confident enough now that I have no problem sending someone out of here and being sure they are not going to get stuck somewhere.
As you can see I am concentrating on the cold start issues as it has for sure been the #1 frustrating issue I have had to deal with. I feel at this time it is really a non issue. The AEM will NOT start as quickly as the stock ECU, the cam/crank sensor has to sync and the ECU does not do that quickly enough, so it will always crank longer than a stock ECU before it fires. AEM has not addressed this issue yet as they do not feel it exists. It really is not a problem anyway.
Knock control. It is fully programable. You could set the control up to pull timing/add fuel faster than the stock ECU does. Saying the knock control sucks in the AEM makes anyone saying it a complete and utter moron. You can adjust it and turn it on/off because you are dealing with a STANDALONE ENGINE MANAGEMENT, that's why you buy them.
I use knock control all the time. Even our 8 second EVO has it turned on. There is no reason to NOT use it. It is adjustable so each car has it set up differently.
Now for the cost. We sell the AEM WITH integrated wideband, 5 bar SS map sensor, billet MAP sensor adapter, SS bung and air temp sensor for $2199. We use to charge more and include tuning, we no longer do that. So let's look at that cost.........
Let's take this actual car in this thread for example. Extremely good running car to begin with. On pump/alky with the 20g-9-5 the car ran 11.2 at 124 and made about 360 whp.
We then installed the green on the car and I was able to get the power up to 372 whp and 356 ft lbs. That is a lot of power on our dyno. To break that down by money, Bobby spent $1695 for a Green turbo and gained 12 whp over the 20g-9-5.
I told him his best best was to put the AEM on the car. He then spent $2199 to do that. The power then went up to 411 whp and 395 ft lbs of torque.
Going from the 20g-9-5 cost him $141.25 per horsepower.
Going from the stock ECU to the AEM cost him $56.38 per horsepower.
So as you can see, the cost of the AEM per horsepower gained is pretty freaking cheap.
He since added the ported intake/tb and I retuned the car making even more HP/Torque both on pump/alky and race gas. Cost is even cheaper now.
I am not sure how many AEM EMS's I have tuned at this point. It is what I prefer to tune because I tune so many. I have tuned Mustangs, Vipers, 300ZX's, Supra's, DSM's, EVO's etc. I have NEVER had a car blow up while I was tuning it. I have however had one come apart that was my fault after it was tuned, that car belonged to a guy named Matt. Matt started as a customer and has become more a friend than customer at this point. He was not sponsored at the time this happened and I covered the entire re-build 100% free. He is now sponsored by us.
IF WE MAKE A MISTAKE, no matter how big a dick you are when you confront us about it, WE WILL 100% OF THE TIME COVER THE MISTAKE FREE TO YOU. That's how we operate. End of story.
This goes for anything we do here, engines, heads, turbos, exhaust, tuning, I don't care, we stand behind it. Everyone can make a mistake, what seperates us from many other companies is IF we do make a mistake, we stand behind it and handle it. If the company you are dealing with isn't treating you that way maybe it's time to switch companies.
I am sure there are people on this board that can chime in with us fixing something we did.
As for the AEM. It is a STAND ALONE ENGINE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM. It is only as good as the guy tuning it. Are there issues from time to time with it? Yes. Is the cold start always dead on the money? No. There are a bunch of "tuners" of the AEM that will lead you to believe they have all the issues on every single car they do fixed 100%. Well I can tell you for a fact they are liars. One place in particular hasn't really got a clue what it takes to make a car start when it's cold. It's easy to say it when you live and tune cars in an area that doesn't get down to 0F and colder. The base maps will start a car down to 35F or so. Get in a crappy climate like ours and then brag about how good you are.
The first year we were tuning AEM's winter flat out sucked. Every car got pushed in the shop, warmed up and then started. The next year it was better but still pushed a lot of cars in the shop so they'd start. This last winter I think we had ONE car all winter that I just couldn't get to fire outside.
Each injector size makes for a new set of changes to get the car to start when it is extremely cold.
I am confident enough now that I have no problem sending someone out of here and being sure they are not going to get stuck somewhere.
As you can see I am concentrating on the cold start issues as it has for sure been the #1 frustrating issue I have had to deal with. I feel at this time it is really a non issue. The AEM will NOT start as quickly as the stock ECU, the cam/crank sensor has to sync and the ECU does not do that quickly enough, so it will always crank longer than a stock ECU before it fires. AEM has not addressed this issue yet as they do not feel it exists. It really is not a problem anyway.
Knock control. It is fully programable. You could set the control up to pull timing/add fuel faster than the stock ECU does. Saying the knock control sucks in the AEM makes anyone saying it a complete and utter moron. You can adjust it and turn it on/off because you are dealing with a STANDALONE ENGINE MANAGEMENT, that's why you buy them.
I use knock control all the time. Even our 8 second EVO has it turned on. There is no reason to NOT use it. It is adjustable so each car has it set up differently.
Now for the cost. We sell the AEM WITH integrated wideband, 5 bar SS map sensor, billet MAP sensor adapter, SS bung and air temp sensor for $2199. We use to charge more and include tuning, we no longer do that. So let's look at that cost.........
Let's take this actual car in this thread for example. Extremely good running car to begin with. On pump/alky with the 20g-9-5 the car ran 11.2 at 124 and made about 360 whp.
We then installed the green on the car and I was able to get the power up to 372 whp and 356 ft lbs. That is a lot of power on our dyno. To break that down by money, Bobby spent $1695 for a Green turbo and gained 12 whp over the 20g-9-5.
I told him his best best was to put the AEM on the car. He then spent $2199 to do that. The power then went up to 411 whp and 395 ft lbs of torque.
Going from the 20g-9-5 cost him $141.25 per horsepower.
Going from the stock ECU to the AEM cost him $56.38 per horsepower.
So as you can see, the cost of the AEM per horsepower gained is pretty freaking cheap.
He since added the ported intake/tb and I retuned the car making even more HP/Torque both on pump/alky and race gas. Cost is even cheaper now.
Apr 12, 2007, 09:16 AM
#70
The average user will find it much easier to get going Autronic than an AEM - much less external input and support are required. I'm referring specifically to the SM4 (which has knock control), not the stripped down EVO 8 PnP version. The SM4 PnP board is available for the EVO 9, and it can be adapted to the U.S. spec EVO 8 (although I hear an EVO 8 version is to be soon released).
FYI
Apr 12, 2007, 09:18 AM
#71
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I see you stopped working on yours and everyone else's cars long enough to hit the internet again Al
haha
Thanks for the support on my statements.
As you know Al, I haven't tuned or built many cars in the last 18 years of doing these 4g63's, what the hell do I know? haha
hahaThanks for the support on my statements.
As you know Al, I haven't tuned or built many cars in the last 18 years of doing these 4g63's, what the hell do I know? haha
You are over qualified for the position
One good aspect of these discussions is that I am sure that most of these tools who argue with you will in later years come to realize that you were right all along ("you know that David Buschur was right abut the fmic co2 sprayer after all") etc.
I have to say that in some ways its more satisfying for me to read the comments of so called "expert" arm chair tuners which contradict both common sense and the positions of Master Buschur - - - than to see the newbie "experts" who simply copy everything that Buschur does and try and sell it for less.
Apr 12, 2007, 09:24 AM
#72
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this thread got out of controll quick, 
but just to see by switching to a blow through GM maf, over the stock maf on the turbo inlet, with a flash how much whp is expected.
not intended to jack this thread but we're on the topic . . .
but just to see by switching to a blow through GM maf, over the stock maf on the turbo inlet, with a flash how much whp is expected. not intended to jack this thread but we're on the topic . . .
Apr 12, 2007, 09:25 AM
#73
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I might be more inclined to get the AEM EMS but here at 2007 these are the issues I STILL see with the AEM EMS.
[LIST][*]Mike1023 Pump Gas E-Flash 11.23 @ 120 MPH, Stock Turbo Stock Engine (272's) and he hasn't blown up, my guess is because of the stock Knock control. Maybe if tuners just focused on Tuning a Flash vs a knee-jerk statement of buying a Two Thousand dollar piece of hardware and hoping the tuner knows what he is doing.
[*]There are MANY MANY 11 second Pump Gas Stock Turbo Evos on a Flash.
[LIST][*]Mike1023 Pump Gas E-Flash 11.23 @ 120 MPH, Stock Turbo Stock Engine (272's) and he hasn't blown up, my guess is because of the stock Knock control. Maybe if tuners just focused on Tuning a Flash vs a knee-jerk statement of buying a Two Thousand dollar piece of hardware and hoping the tuner knows what he is doing.
[*]There are MANY MANY 11 second Pump Gas Stock Turbo Evos on a Flash.
While Mike 1023 did go very low 11's with my E Flash! - (great job mike)
Curt Brown went mid 10's with am AEM
No doubt an AEM would speed up Mike's car
The reality is I have a lot of really fast cars with reflashes out there
There are others who's motors make "noise" of some kind which the stock ecu does not like who aren't that fast
Stanmd alone vs. flash each has its own benefots and advantages over the other
The debate was not whether you can get good results with a reflash - (I believe I can) - the actual assertion was that an AEM can maximize the available power 100% vs a stock ecu which has many saftey features which limit power to some xtent
Al
Apr 12, 2007, 09:26 AM
#74
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as far as i know, they plug into your diagnostics port and it sends a feed to DMV. from there DMV checks and sees if everything is copasetic. then it comes back and lets the inspector know if they can issue a sticker or not.
Apr 12, 2007, 09:29 AM
#75
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Thanks for the post Jarrod and addressing some of the questions/concerns.
I am not sure how many AEM EMS's I have tuned at this point. It is what I prefer to tune because I tune so many. I have tuned Mustangs, Vipers, 300ZX's, Supra's, DSM's, EVO's etc. I have NEVER had a car blow up while I was tuning it. I have however had one come apart that was my fault after it was tuned, that car belonged to a guy named Matt. Matt started as a customer and has become more a friend than customer at this point. He was not sponsored at the time this happened and I covered the entire re-build 100% free. He is now sponsored by us.
IF WE MAKE A MISTAKE, no matter how big a dick you are when you confront us about it, WE WILL 100% OF THE TIME COVER THE MISTAKE FREE TO YOU. That's how we operate. End of story.
This goes for anything we do here, engines, heads, turbos, exhaust, tuning, I don't care, we stand behind it. Everyone can make a mistake, what seperates us from many other companies is IF we do make a mistake, we stand behind it and handle it. If the company you are dealing with isn't treating you that way maybe it's time to switch companies.
I am sure there are people on this board that can chime in with us fixing something we did.
As for the AEM. It is a STAND ALONE ENGINE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM. It is only as good as the guy tuning it. Are there issues from time to time with it? Yes. Is the cold start always dead on the money? No. There are a bunch of "tuners" of the AEM that will lead you to believe they have all the issues on every single car they do fixed 100%. Well I can tell you for a fact they are liars. One place in particular hasn't really got a clue what it takes to make a car start when it's cold. It's easy to say it when you live and tune cars in an area that doesn't get down to 0F and colder. The base maps will start a car down to 35F or so. Get in a crappy climate like ours and then brag about how good you are.
The first year we were tuning AEM's winter flat out sucked. Every car got pushed in the shop, warmed up and then started. The next year it was better but still pushed a lot of cars in the shop so they'd start. This last winter I think we had ONE car all winter that I just couldn't get to fire outside.
Each injector size makes for a new set of changes to get the car to start when it is extremely cold.
I am confident enough now that I have no problem sending someone out of here and being sure they are not going to get stuck somewhere.
As you can see I am concentrating on the cold start issues as it has for sure been the #1 frustrating issue I have had to deal with. I feel at this time it is really a non issue. The AEM will NOT start as quickly as the stock ECU, the cam/crank sensor has to sync and the ECU does not do that quickly enough, so it will always crank longer than a stock ECU before it fires. AEM has not addressed this issue yet as they do not feel it exists. It really is not a problem anyway.
Knock control. It is fully programable. You could set the control up to pull timing/add fuel faster than the stock ECU does. Saying the knock control sucks in the AEM makes anyone saying it a complete and utter moron. You can adjust it and turn it on/off because you are dealing with a STANDALONE ENGINE MANAGEMENT, that's why you buy them.
I use knock control all the time. Even our 8 second EVO has it turned on. There is no reason to NOT use it. It is adjustable so each car has it set up differently.
Now for the cost. We sell the AEM WITH integrated wideband, 5 bar SS map sensor, billet MAP sensor adapter, SS bung and air temp sensor for $2199. We use to charge more and include tuning, we no longer do that. So let's look at that cost.........
Let's take this actual car in this thread for example. Extremely good running car to begin with. On pump/alky with the 20g-9-5 the car ran 11.2 at 124 and made about 360 whp.
We then installed the green on the car and I was able to get the power up to 372 whp and 356 ft lbs. That is a lot of power on our dyno. To break that down by money, Bobby spent $1695 for a Green turbo and gained 12 whp over the 20g-9-5.
I told him his best best was to put the AEM on the car. He then spent $2199 to do that. The power then went up to 411 whp and 395 ft lbs of torque.
Going from the 20g-9-5 cost him $141.25 per horsepower.
Going from the stock ECU to the AEM cost him $56.38 per horsepower.
So as you can see, the cost of the AEM per horsepower gained is pretty freaking cheap.
He since added the ported intake/tb and I retuned the car making even more HP/Torque both on pump/alky and race gas. Cost is even cheaper now.
I am not sure how many AEM EMS's I have tuned at this point. It is what I prefer to tune because I tune so many. I have tuned Mustangs, Vipers, 300ZX's, Supra's, DSM's, EVO's etc. I have NEVER had a car blow up while I was tuning it. I have however had one come apart that was my fault after it was tuned, that car belonged to a guy named Matt. Matt started as a customer and has become more a friend than customer at this point. He was not sponsored at the time this happened and I covered the entire re-build 100% free. He is now sponsored by us.
IF WE MAKE A MISTAKE, no matter how big a dick you are when you confront us about it, WE WILL 100% OF THE TIME COVER THE MISTAKE FREE TO YOU. That's how we operate. End of story.
This goes for anything we do here, engines, heads, turbos, exhaust, tuning, I don't care, we stand behind it. Everyone can make a mistake, what seperates us from many other companies is IF we do make a mistake, we stand behind it and handle it. If the company you are dealing with isn't treating you that way maybe it's time to switch companies.
I am sure there are people on this board that can chime in with us fixing something we did.
As for the AEM. It is a STAND ALONE ENGINE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM. It is only as good as the guy tuning it. Are there issues from time to time with it? Yes. Is the cold start always dead on the money? No. There are a bunch of "tuners" of the AEM that will lead you to believe they have all the issues on every single car they do fixed 100%. Well I can tell you for a fact they are liars. One place in particular hasn't really got a clue what it takes to make a car start when it's cold. It's easy to say it when you live and tune cars in an area that doesn't get down to 0F and colder. The base maps will start a car down to 35F or so. Get in a crappy climate like ours and then brag about how good you are.
The first year we were tuning AEM's winter flat out sucked. Every car got pushed in the shop, warmed up and then started. The next year it was better but still pushed a lot of cars in the shop so they'd start. This last winter I think we had ONE car all winter that I just couldn't get to fire outside.
Each injector size makes for a new set of changes to get the car to start when it is extremely cold.
I am confident enough now that I have no problem sending someone out of here and being sure they are not going to get stuck somewhere.
As you can see I am concentrating on the cold start issues as it has for sure been the #1 frustrating issue I have had to deal with. I feel at this time it is really a non issue. The AEM will NOT start as quickly as the stock ECU, the cam/crank sensor has to sync and the ECU does not do that quickly enough, so it will always crank longer than a stock ECU before it fires. AEM has not addressed this issue yet as they do not feel it exists. It really is not a problem anyway.
Knock control. It is fully programable. You could set the control up to pull timing/add fuel faster than the stock ECU does. Saying the knock control sucks in the AEM makes anyone saying it a complete and utter moron. You can adjust it and turn it on/off because you are dealing with a STANDALONE ENGINE MANAGEMENT, that's why you buy them.
I use knock control all the time. Even our 8 second EVO has it turned on. There is no reason to NOT use it. It is adjustable so each car has it set up differently.
Now for the cost. We sell the AEM WITH integrated wideband, 5 bar SS map sensor, billet MAP sensor adapter, SS bung and air temp sensor for $2199. We use to charge more and include tuning, we no longer do that. So let's look at that cost.........
Let's take this actual car in this thread for example. Extremely good running car to begin with. On pump/alky with the 20g-9-5 the car ran 11.2 at 124 and made about 360 whp.
We then installed the green on the car and I was able to get the power up to 372 whp and 356 ft lbs. That is a lot of power on our dyno. To break that down by money, Bobby spent $1695 for a Green turbo and gained 12 whp over the 20g-9-5.
I told him his best best was to put the AEM on the car. He then spent $2199 to do that. The power then went up to 411 whp and 395 ft lbs of torque.
Going from the 20g-9-5 cost him $141.25 per horsepower.
Going from the stock ECU to the AEM cost him $56.38 per horsepower.
So as you can see, the cost of the AEM per horsepower gained is pretty freaking cheap.
He since added the ported intake/tb and I retuned the car making even more HP/Torque both on pump/alky and race gas. Cost is even cheaper now.
I concur you went from a AEM newbie to one of the USA's top AEM tuning authorities in the span of a few years with persisant effort, determination and your own unique natural skill of understanding machanical devices.
I have driven in many of the AEM tuned cars you have done in the last year and they ride very close to stock indeed.