Me and My Tilton love hate relationship
Jun 5, 2007, 01:13 PM
#46
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Driving style plays a ton into this. I know DSM guys that run brand X clutch in 150mph+ cars with no issues all season where as another guy can't make the same brand x clutch work for more than a couple passes in an almost identically powered car.
Jun 5, 2007, 03:50 PM
#47
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Before you give the wrong impression, lets not forget a couple details:
Your wear rate was an exception to the rule. The majority (many are 2 years old) of EVO carbons we have sold have never been in for rebuild.
There was one big contributor to wear...
You knew earlier that the clutch was beginning to slip at the top end. With the clutch already slipping, you decided to take another pass. During this pass, the clutch really slipped. Rather than park the car, you drove it back to the pit area (moving a few MPH, turning 6000-7000 RPM in 1st gear). This basically sanded expensive carbon away, probably wearing over .030" of carbon away (about 1/4 of its life). Because of the extreme amount of heat generated during this, the clutch cover and pressure plate warped. The nickel plating was actually starting to boil off the clutch cover.
Next time you begin to notice any slip, check the clutch to see if the next thicker pressure plate (shim) needs to be installed. It will save you a lot of money in the future.
Lastly, driver is the biggest influence on clutch life. A know of stock EVO clutches that have been destroyed within 1000 miles. The more you slip a clutch, the faster they will wear and higher (damage generating) temperatures are seen.
Kirk
Tilton Engineering
Your wear rate was an exception to the rule. The majority (many are 2 years old) of EVO carbons we have sold have never been in for rebuild.
There was one big contributor to wear...
You knew earlier that the clutch was beginning to slip at the top end. With the clutch already slipping, you decided to take another pass. During this pass, the clutch really slipped. Rather than park the car, you drove it back to the pit area (moving a few MPH, turning 6000-7000 RPM in 1st gear). This basically sanded expensive carbon away, probably wearing over .030" of carbon away (about 1/4 of its life). Because of the extreme amount of heat generated during this, the clutch cover and pressure plate warped. The nickel plating was actually starting to boil off the clutch cover.
Next time you begin to notice any slip, check the clutch to see if the next thicker pressure plate (shim) needs to be installed. It will save you a lot of money in the future.
Lastly, driver is the biggest influence on clutch life. A know of stock EVO clutches that have been destroyed within 1000 miles. The more you slip a clutch, the faster they will wear and higher (damage generating) temperatures are seen.
Kirk
Tilton Engineering
I just wanted to give ya guys some feedback on the frustrations ive gone thru with my Tilon carbon clutch.
Positives:
1) I can no lift shift
2) Transmission syncros love it
3) Will take beating from 4wheel burnouts and lots of slippage off the line.
4) There are no springs so you wont pop them out from fast shifting and high rpms
Cons:
1) I'm on my 3rd rebuild last one cost me $700 and Tilton said after this one wears the clutch is done which will cost me a crap load for a new one
2) Do not daily drive this clutch as it will wear out very fast
3) Do not drive it up a trailer use a winch to pull ya up as it will wear the plates.
4) Do not hot lap the car after each drag race give it some time to cool down.
5) The plates are 7.25" in size so it allows you to shift fast and less inertia on the transmission but the plates will wear faster than lets say a 9" rps carbon carbon.
I did heat the clutch up so hot that i melted the rear main seal and boiled the plating off the pressure plate. I also turned the input shaft on my transmission black and blue! So we put in the evo 9 first gear and input shaft. Tilton said they had only seen on of there clutches do that and it was in a Baja sand truck stuck in the sand. Also all the guys at Tilton were awesome to deal with and took care of everything i asked for plus ship me the clutch overnight so we could race this last weekend
Positives:
1) I can no lift shift
2) Transmission syncros love it
3) Will take beating from 4wheel burnouts and lots of slippage off the line.
4) There are no springs so you wont pop them out from fast shifting and high rpms
Cons:
1) I'm on my 3rd rebuild last one cost me $700 and Tilton said after this one wears the clutch is done which will cost me a crap load for a new one
2) Do not daily drive this clutch as it will wear out very fast
3) Do not drive it up a trailer use a winch to pull ya up as it will wear the plates.
4) Do not hot lap the car after each drag race give it some time to cool down.
5) The plates are 7.25" in size so it allows you to shift fast and less inertia on the transmission but the plates will wear faster than lets say a 9" rps carbon carbon.
I did heat the clutch up so hot that i melted the rear main seal and boiled the plating off the pressure plate. I also turned the input shaft on my transmission black and blue! So we put in the evo 9 first gear and input shaft. Tilton said they had only seen on of there clutches do that and it was in a Baja sand truck stuck in the sand. Also all the guys at Tilton were awesome to deal with and took care of everything i asked for plus ship me the clutch overnight so we could race this last weekend
Jun 5, 2007, 04:03 PM
#48
Hey kirt! We made the 9sec pass on the clutch! 
Thankyou for overnighting the clutch.
I know and admit that i put some major abuse to her i just wanted to give some heads up to other evo owners in here let them know from my mistakes on what not to do. the clutch is awesome and i will keep running it for the life of my evo. Ive never missed a gear with this clutch
Thankyou for overnighting the clutch.I know and admit that i put some major abuse to her i just wanted to give some heads up to other evo owners in here let them know from my mistakes on what not to do. the clutch is awesome and i will keep running it for the life of my evo. Ive never missed a gear with this clutch
Jun 5, 2007, 04:05 PM
#49
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$200 is for a standard rebuild. A standard rebuild assumes that the pressure plate (shim) is changed near the recommend interval. The recommended interval is .025" of wear. After .050" of wear (2nd pressure plate), the clutch should be returned to Tilton for rebuild. During rebuild, the diaphragm spring is change ($85 parts), the clutch cover legs are trimmed to match the carbon and the clutch is dyno tested ($120 labor). The first pressure plate is reinstalled in the clutch again. If maintained properly, the clutch can come in for rebuild sevice twice.
Paul's rebuild cost were higher because the clutch saw soo much heat that the clutch cover and pressure plate (shim) warped and needed to be replaced. This rarely happens. It saw soo much heat that the nickel plating began to boil off the clutch cover. I have only seen this once before.... In the 4-plate carbon clutch we supply for theTerrible Herbst Trophy Truck (SCORE series). They had transmission problems (stuck in 3rd gear) in a sand wash. Imagine how much heat was generated trying to move a 7000+ lb truck out of a sand wash in 3rd gear. Paul generated near the same amount of heat.
Kirk
Tilton Engineering
Paul's rebuild cost were higher because the clutch saw soo much heat that the clutch cover and pressure plate (shim) warped and needed to be replaced. This rarely happens. It saw soo much heat that the nickel plating began to boil off the clutch cover. I have only seen this once before.... In the 4-plate carbon clutch we supply for theTerrible Herbst Trophy Truck (SCORE series). They had transmission problems (stuck in 3rd gear) in a sand wash. Imagine how much heat was generated trying to move a 7000+ lb truck out of a sand wash in 3rd gear. Paul generated near the same amount of heat.
Kirk
Tilton Engineering
Most other Twins and tripples will never shift as fast as the Tilton. We could have saved our selfes some carnage and $$$$$ if we know how much it really cost of fix this clutch if we are stupid with it. When buying it evey one said $200 to rebuild and $800 if you really abuse it not $2700 if you really abuse it.
Even when we took it out last with the black and blue input shaft the disc looked fine just a gold colored PP cover and flat fingers with no spring left.
I think a Exedy tripple ceramic and dog box might be a cheeper option for people like Paul who what to race 100+ passes pre month and drive the car alot on the street.
For cars with out N2O on a 67mm or bigger, 4 wheel slicks on a 2.0 you really have to ride the clutch out to keep her in boost with out bogging. I know most ceramic twins we would put to much heat to them and warp or crack plates.
Even when we took it out last with the black and blue input shaft the disc looked fine just a gold colored PP cover and flat fingers with no spring left.
I think a Exedy tripple ceramic and dog box might be a cheeper option for people like Paul who what to race 100+ passes pre month and drive the car alot on the street.
For cars with out N2O on a 67mm or bigger, 4 wheel slicks on a 2.0 you really have to ride the clutch out to keep her in boost with out bogging. I know most ceramic twins we would put to much heat to them and warp or crack plates.
Jun 5, 2007, 04:21 PM
#50
$200 is for a standard rebuild. A standard rebuild assumes that the pressure plate (shim) is changed near the recommend interval. The recommended interval is .025" of wear. After .050" of wear (2nd pressure plate), the clutch should be returned to Tilton for rebuild. During rebuild, the diaphragm spring is change ($85 parts), the clutch cover legs are trimmed to match the carbon and the clutch is dyno tested ($120 labor). The first pressure plate is reinstalled in the clutch again. If maintained properly, the clutch can come in for rebuild sevice twice.
Paul's rebuild cost were higher because the clutch saw soo much heat that the clutch cover and pressure plate (shim) warped and needed to be replaced. This rarely happens. It saw soo much heat that the nickel plating began to boil off the clutch cover. I have only seen this once before.... In the 4-plate carbon clutch we supply for theTerrible Herbst Trophy Truck (SCORE series). They had transmission problems (stuck in 3rd gear) in a sand wash. Imagine how much heat was generated trying to move a 7000+ lb truck out of a sand wash in 3rd gear. Paul generated near the same amount of heat.
Kirk
Tilton Engineering
Paul's rebuild cost were higher because the clutch saw soo much heat that the clutch cover and pressure plate (shim) warped and needed to be replaced. This rarely happens. It saw soo much heat that the nickel plating began to boil off the clutch cover. I have only seen this once before.... In the 4-plate carbon clutch we supply for theTerrible Herbst Trophy Truck (SCORE series). They had transmission problems (stuck in 3rd gear) in a sand wash. Imagine how much heat was generated trying to move a 7000+ lb truck out of a sand wash in 3rd gear. Paul generated near the same amount of heat.
Kirk
Tilton Engineering
Jun 5, 2007, 04:22 PM
#51
Nice seeing you on the boards Kirk @ Tilton. We are very pleased with the carbone twin for the EVO.
ifarted, we can all be taken wrong when typing on the internet. That's why I put in my post (no offense) or something like that. I was not trying to be rude, just saying our personal experience. Your car is fast as hell, very impressed with how you are doing with it.
ifarted, we can all be taken wrong when typing on the internet. That's why I put in my post (no offense) or something like that. I was not trying to be rude, just saying our personal experience. Your car is fast as hell, very impressed with how you are doing with it.
Jun 6, 2007, 02:23 PM
#52
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I just wanted to give ya guys some feedback on the frustrations ive gone thru with my Tilon carbon clutch.
Positives:
1) I can no lift shift
2) Transmission syncros love it
3) Will take beating from 4wheel burnouts and lots of slippage off the line.
4) There are no springs so you wont pop them out from fast shifting and high rpms
Cons:
1) I'm on my 3rd rebuild last one cost me $700 and Tilton said after this one wears the clutch is done which will cost me a crap load for a new one
2) Do not daily drive this clutch as it will wear out very fast
3) Do not drive it up a trailer use a winch to pull ya up as it will wear the plates.
4) Do not hot lap the car after each drag race give it some time to cool down.
5) The plates are 7.25" in size so it allows you to shift fast and less inertia on the transmission but the plates will wear faster than lets say a 9" rps carbon carbon.
I did heat the clutch up so hot that i melted the rear main seal and boiled the plating off the pressure plate. I also turned the input shaft on my transmission black and blue! So we put in the evo 9 first gear and input shaft. Tilton said they had only seen on of there clutches do that and it was in a Baja sand truck stuck in the sand. Also all the guys at Tilton were awesome to deal with and took care of everything i asked for plus ship me the clutch overnight so we could race this last weekend
Positives:
1) I can no lift shift
2) Transmission syncros love it
3) Will take beating from 4wheel burnouts and lots of slippage off the line.
4) There are no springs so you wont pop them out from fast shifting and high rpms
Cons:
1) I'm on my 3rd rebuild last one cost me $700 and Tilton said after this one wears the clutch is done which will cost me a crap load for a new one
2) Do not daily drive this clutch as it will wear out very fast
3) Do not drive it up a trailer use a winch to pull ya up as it will wear the plates.
4) Do not hot lap the car after each drag race give it some time to cool down.
5) The plates are 7.25" in size so it allows you to shift fast and less inertia on the transmission but the plates will wear faster than lets say a 9" rps carbon carbon.
I did heat the clutch up so hot that i melted the rear main seal and boiled the plating off the pressure plate. I also turned the input shaft on my transmission black and blue! So we put in the evo 9 first gear and input shaft. Tilton said they had only seen on of there clutches do that and it was in a Baja sand truck stuck in the sand. Also all the guys at Tilton were awesome to deal with and took care of everything i asked for plus ship me the clutch overnight so we could race this last weekend
Jun 6, 2007, 05:00 PM
#53
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Dirk,
Thank you for the nice comments. It means a lot coming from you. We (Tilton) respect your knowledge, opinion and great products.
I have spoken to Paul (ifarted2) and it seems he came off the wrong way. He was just trying to use his experience to inform people on ways to extend clutch life. On the other hand, 9 second EVOs are closer to a race car than a street car. As is common with race cars, parts are going to require more attention and maintanence. There are trade-offs for going really fast.
The main thing I want customers to learn (know)... If your expensive carbon clutch is starting to show signs of slippage, stop driving the car and inspect the clutch. It will save a lot of money in the long term.
Thank you for the nice comments. It means a lot coming from you. We (Tilton) respect your knowledge, opinion and great products.
I have spoken to Paul (ifarted2) and it seems he came off the wrong way. He was just trying to use his experience to inform people on ways to extend clutch life. On the other hand, 9 second EVOs are closer to a race car than a street car. As is common with race cars, parts are going to require more attention and maintanence. There are trade-offs for going really fast.
The main thing I want customers to learn (know)... If your expensive carbon clutch is starting to show signs of slippage, stop driving the car and inspect the clutch. It will save a lot of money in the long term.
You make it sound like the Tilton Carbon/carbon is fragile (which it isn't) but for any clutch there is a limit to what they can take. If you were able to burn the nickel plating off, then it was EXTREMELY hot. Heat only comes from slipping and you should know better than to slip a clutch that long (sorry for being so frank). From my experience, almost any damage you could do to the Tilton carbon/carbon would have happened much faster and worse with ANY other clutch available on the market. IMO, their carbon clutch is top notch, especially for the demands of racing. I am glad that Kirk posted his thoughts as well.
Jun 6, 2007, 05:03 PM
#54
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David,
It is good to hear that the clutch is working well for you. Keep up the good work in producing the quickest EVOs and DSMs.
Kirk
It is good to hear that the clutch is working well for you. Keep up the good work in producing the quickest EVOs and DSMs.
Kirk
Nice seeing you on the boards Kirk @ Tilton. We are very pleased with the carbone twin for the EVO.
ifarted, we can all be taken wrong when typing on the internet. That's why I put in my post (no offense) or something like that. I was not trying to be rude, just saying our personal experience. Your car is fast as hell, very impressed with how you are doing with it.
ifarted, we can all be taken wrong when typing on the internet. That's why I put in my post (no offense) or something like that. I was not trying to be rude, just saying our personal experience. Your car is fast as hell, very impressed with how you are doing with it.
Jun 6, 2007, 05:08 PM
#55
Dirk,
Thank you for the nice comments. It means a lot coming from you. We (Tilton) respect your knowledge, opinion and great products.
I have spoken to Paul (ifarted2) and it seems he came off the wrong way. He was just trying to use his experience to inform people on ways to extend clutch life. On the other hand, 9 second EVOs are closer to a race car than a street car. As is common with race cars, parts are going to require more attention and maintanence. There are trade-offs for going really fast.
The main thing I want customers to learn (know)... If your expensive carbon clutch is starting to show signs of slippage, stop driving the car and inspect the clutch. It will save a lot of money in the long term.
Thank you for the nice comments. It means a lot coming from you. We (Tilton) respect your knowledge, opinion and great products.
I have spoken to Paul (ifarted2) and it seems he came off the wrong way. He was just trying to use his experience to inform people on ways to extend clutch life. On the other hand, 9 second EVOs are closer to a race car than a street car. As is common with race cars, parts are going to require more attention and maintanence. There are trade-offs for going really fast.
The main thing I want customers to learn (know)... If your expensive carbon clutch is starting to show signs of slippage, stop driving the car and inspect the clutch. It will save a lot of money in the long term.
hands down. Just make sure when you install it to do the proper maintenance and it will last you a hell of allot longer than it did me
I just have a bad habit of breaking everything! O well
Jun 6, 2007, 05:45 PM
#56
He knows what he did was stupid and we have said it. So saying he is stupid over and over does noting to the thread.
The reason we are mad and want to let others know is the fact that this clutch can cost $2700 to fix if you are stupid or if you do ware it down and have it rebuilt twice. Before we knew this we thought worst case ever in our whole life was $800.
Also most of the EVO's that run this clutch are one hit wonders just to go to the track a few times a year and prove how fast thay are. Not race every weekend or street drive.
I know with all the 600+hp evo coming up many will do what Paul did and thay should have a heads up.
We have sated we love the clutch and it does eveything we want it to.
The 1st time around he may have gotten 50 passes, Loaded it on his traller 10x times with quite a bit of slip but not crazy and street drove it 1000mi. The clutch was gone in 3 weeks.
The reason we are mad and want to let others know is the fact that this clutch can cost $2700 to fix if you are stupid or if you do ware it down and have it rebuilt twice. Before we knew this we thought worst case ever in our whole life was $800.
Also most of the EVO's that run this clutch are one hit wonders just to go to the track a few times a year and prove how fast thay are. Not race every weekend or street drive.
I know with all the 600+hp evo coming up many will do what Paul did and thay should have a heads up.
We have sated we love the clutch and it does eveything we want it to.
The 1st time around he may have gotten 50 passes, Loaded it on his traller 10x times with quite a bit of slip but not crazy and street drove it 1000mi. The clutch was gone in 3 weeks.
Jun 6, 2007, 07:50 PM
#59
From my reading, experience and talking to people normal street driving with stop and go trafic wears carbon clutchs very fast. I would think a 400whp car that is street driven alot would probaly need to rebuild the clutch once a year which also means at some point in the year you would have to pull the tranny and reshim the clutch.
The main reason to buy this clutch is so you can slip it hard like to launch a 42R 700+hp car with out having to use N2O. No other clutch on the market can take the heat that this one can and still shift good.
Paul had a unsprung 6 puck that held the power fine and shifted margnal. On a cold track with lots of wheel spin it let him run 10.8's@140. As soon as he hit a track with some traction and he tried to slip it enough to keep from bogging the clutch was done.
More I think about it on the 1st plate Paul probalby only had 20-30passes and most of those were bogged launchs trying to learn how to slip her right on the launch. He had steet drove the car for maybe 1000mi with geting stuck in rush hr traffic a few times and it started slipping on him when he took it on our DSM run. When it started slipping that time he took it easy and we pulled the tranny and put the 2nd thiker plate in.
The main reason to buy this clutch is so you can slip it hard like to launch a 42R 700+hp car with out having to use N2O. No other clutch on the market can take the heat that this one can and still shift good.
Paul had a unsprung 6 puck that held the power fine and shifted margnal. On a cold track with lots of wheel spin it let him run 10.8's@140. As soon as he hit a track with some traction and he tried to slip it enough to keep from bogging the clutch was done.
More I think about it on the 1st plate Paul probalby only had 20-30passes and most of those were bogged launchs trying to learn how to slip her right on the launch. He had steet drove the car for maybe 1000mi with geting stuck in rush hr traffic a few times and it started slipping on him when he took it on our DSM run. When it started slipping that time he took it easy and we pulled the tranny and put the 2nd thiker plate in.
