Built Motor Questions
Jun 21, 2007, 06:04 PM
#17
i disagree with this statement...
many machine shops are just that, machine shops... it doesnt mean that they understand the dynamics of performing the work for a well put together package...
we tried a local hot rod engine builder once, that didnt go over well....
we standardized with JAM because all they do is build engines... they arent just a machine shop....
every engine builder is a machinist... but not every machinist is an engine builder...
just our two cents... nothing against TTP's opinion...
cb
to me, paying a little bit of money for insured shipping, to make sure a true engine builder takes care of you, is money well spent....
i come from a background of racing high performance purpose built race motors (in the lmp cars.. mostly 2 liter turbos..) and in working with engine building and development companies such as AER, and being around cosworth, audi etc.... there is great worth in their expertise.
many machine shops are just that, machine shops... it doesnt mean that they understand the dynamics of performing the work for a well put together package...
we tried a local hot rod engine builder once, that didnt go over well....
we standardized with JAM because all they do is build engines... they arent just a machine shop....
every engine builder is a machinist... but not every machinist is an engine builder...
just our two cents... nothing against TTP's opinion...
cb
to me, paying a little bit of money for insured shipping, to make sure a true engine builder takes care of you, is money well spent....
i come from a background of racing high performance purpose built race motors (in the lmp cars.. mostly 2 liter turbos..) and in working with engine building and development companies such as AER, and being around cosworth, audi etc.... there is great worth in their expertise.
Last edited by CBRD; Jun 21, 2007 at 06:07 PM.
Jun 21, 2007, 06:45 PM
#18
i disagree with this statement...
many machine shops are just that, machine shops... it doesnt mean that they understand the dynamics of performing the work for a well put together package...
we tried a local hot rod engine builder once, that didnt go over well....
we standardized with JAM because all they do is build engines... they arent just a machine shop....
every engine builder is a machinist... but not every machinist is an engine builder...
just our two cents... nothing against TTP's opinion...
cb
to me, paying a little bit of money for insured shipping, to make sure a true engine builder takes care of you, is money well spent....
i come from a background of racing high performance purpose built race motors (in the lmp cars.. mostly 2 liter turbos..) and in working with engine building and development companies such as AER, and being around cosworth, audi etc.... there is great worth in their expertise.
many machine shops are just that, machine shops... it doesnt mean that they understand the dynamics of performing the work for a well put together package...
we tried a local hot rod engine builder once, that didnt go over well....
we standardized with JAM because all they do is build engines... they arent just a machine shop....
every engine builder is a machinist... but not every machinist is an engine builder...
just our two cents... nothing against TTP's opinion...
cb
to me, paying a little bit of money for insured shipping, to make sure a true engine builder takes care of you, is money well spent....
i come from a background of racing high performance purpose built race motors (in the lmp cars.. mostly 2 liter turbos..) and in working with engine building and development companies such as AER, and being around cosworth, audi etc.... there is great worth in their expertise.
Find your preferred performance consultant on the 4g63 and "plan" your build by selecting the proper parts first. Take your pistons, rods and crank to the machinist and have everything carefully mic's and measured with proper clearances. Purchase suitable bearings per measurements. Have the machinist do their job and then either assemble it yourself or have your "engine builder/consultant" assemble the engine for you.
I have seen and heard too many instances of "crate motors" built by "reputable" shops having improper piston to wall clearances to earn the right to be wary of "mail in" motor programs.
I am sure there are some great builders out there that turn out quality engines, however assembling the motor one's self or by a qualified local will put another few set of eyes on the critical moving parts of the motor as it is being built. One more line of quality control before the thousands of dollars of moving parts are installed in the engine bay.
On an OT note: CBRD, isn't it about time you get a nice avatar?
Jul 9, 2007, 04:50 PM
#22
Would love to hear from both TTP and CBRD about the following issue. Many shops are installing pistons and rods w/o engine removal. How can this be safe to do since you are balencing nothing? Is this not a risk to bearings? I am close to doing this myself. My old man who was a machinist/engine builder in his younger years, thinks I am nuts to do this w/o having everything balenced. His thinking comes from a V-8 world which may be a lot different. Lets hear what you guys think.
Jul 9, 2007, 05:35 PM
#23
why he just doesn go to like ams, buschur, or jackson machine, and provides the core and get them to do the work for like 3k at most theyll make sure the thing is built right (peace of mind), oh ok that would be to easy he might want to go thrue the process to learn some
Jul 9, 2007, 06:44 PM
#24
i would never do that..
but, again, my opinion... i come from a background of race engines being built overseas in a hidden private factory.. and being brought to the track...
some people do it.. if they believe it works and its working for them, then well... hey..
personally, i wouldnt do it.
cb
but, again, my opinion... i come from a background of race engines being built overseas in a hidden private factory.. and being brought to the track...
some people do it.. if they believe it works and its working for them, then well... hey..
personally, i wouldnt do it.
cb
Jul 9, 2007, 08:30 PM
#25
Would love to hear from both TTP and CBRD about the following issue. Many shops are installing pistons and rods w/o engine removal. How can this be safe to do since you are balencing nothing? Is this not a risk to bearings? I am close to doing this myself. My old man who was a machinist/engine builder in his younger years, thinks I am nuts to do this w/o having everything balenced. His thinking comes from a V-8 world which may be a lot different. Lets hear what you guys think.
I think it is most important to take the new in box pistons and rods to the machine shop to clearance the wristpins as many off the shelf pistons do not quite float freely and bind up creating heat and battering the piston skirts and cylinder walls.
Jul 9, 2007, 11:37 PM
#26
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I would make sure the machine shop knows what they are doing. I had my rotating assembly balanced by a local machine shop and when they balanced my pistons they took material off of the underside of the piston. Right in the middle. I asked AMS about it and they said it really hurts the integrity of the piston. they said it can create hot spots in the piston where some of the material is more thin. which could cause it to warp or break. The local machine shop didnt take much material off but I'm kind of worried right about it. But I really don't want to take the engine out of the car then tear it down and replace the pistons. Do you all think its necissary to do that?
Last edited by Johnboy1065; Jul 9, 2007 at 11:43 PM.
Jul 9, 2007, 11:50 PM
#27
I let Pruven Performance in Milford CT, build my 2.3 block and they screwed it up so bad that the block cracked, bent my head, my valves and basically destoryed my car they where the installers of the engine I didnt do it myself I would of done a better job.
Had to take my car to AMS to get it done right.
Had to take my car to AMS to get it done right.
Jul 10, 2007, 05:03 AM
#28
Inline 6 and V8 are the most important engines to balance. I4 are more tolerant of slight variations in weight.
I think it is most important to take the new in box pistons and rods to the machine shop to clearance the wristpins as many off the shelf pistons do not quite float freely and bind up creating heat and battering the piston skirts and cylinder walls.
I think it is most important to take the new in box pistons and rods to the machine shop to clearance the wristpins as many off the shelf pistons do not quite float freely and bind up creating heat and battering the piston skirts and cylinder walls.
