Ted B

iTrader: (6)

Even if there were no difference in 'numbers', the difference in driveability is enough.

scorke

iTrader: (18)

^ True.

My only gripe/ question for Geoff is how he truly feels about the endtanks he is using on the vertical IC kits. It would seem that they must be quite comprimised, by having a central inlet/outlet with such a wide core to feed and using rectangular endtanks.

I would love to believe that he has done the testing and found out that it works, but if that was the case I feel that all the information I have learned regarding endtank design was false and that the importance of smoothe surfaces is negligible...

Scorke

robertrinaustin

iTrader: (5)

They've done testing and the new unit design is more effecient. I'll let Geoff explain it, but basically the gains with the new design out weigh any negatives with the new design. Look how much shorter the path to the intercooler is and how much less the distance through the intercooler is with the verticle core.

robertrinaustin

iTrader: (5)

Sorry, double post.

scorke

iTrader: (18)

Yeah I assumed that the amount of restriction/pressure drop that was lost(relieved/whatever you want to say) by going up and down through the IC vs left to right was a much bigger impact than the slightly less air friendly endtanks and piping setup.

The reduction on the length of piping I doubt makes a HUGE impact, where as I feel the way the air flows through the IC whilest maintaining the same sort of cooling is the huge advantage with this setup.

I wonder if it cools the air less effectively than a same sized core that is being used horizontally because of the distribution of the charge air throughout the core....

I don't doubt that Geoff knows exactly what he is doing I just always wonder

Thing's can always be improved, I just usually don't know how, so I ask smart people questions and then figure it out

Scorke

Rcebowl

iTrader: (3)

you say that... but really not a fair comparison Full-Race's kit comes with Manifold, Turbo, downpipe, Intercooler, all the pipping, and lines etc... for a est 7-8,000 dollars...

but when you compare all those things from AMS/BR is it not that far off ill use AMS for my comparison (prices from website)

BR:
Turbo Kit: 3,895.0 (GT40r that's the non twin scroll, single waste \gate)
Intercooler Race Core: 759
Race Core Pipping Lower: 270
Upper Pipping: 235
Total: $5159


AMS:
Turbo Kit: 7,719.95 (gt42r they don't make a gt40**r kit)
Intercooler Kit: 1,734.95
Total AMS: 9,454.90

**I am in NO MEANS talking bad about AMS or BR in fact i love both and enjoy reading what both have to offer us in the evolution community however i am just saying just saying that Full-Race is not that highly priced

Geoff Raicer

iTrader: (7)

hey rcebowl -- sorry i missed this post, ive been on the east coast and been pretty busy.


we're working on it! right now we're buildign a twinscroll 3076R evo, a twinscroll 40R evo and a twinscroll 42R evo, maybe another well known 42R car will be added to the mix if we're lucky

yes it is a properly divided twinscroll manifold. It keeps the full length radiator, AC, P/S and can fit up to a GT4094R.

you are correct on those points, however the IC piping is considerably shorter. This increases response, and makes the turbo spool sooner as the volume the turbo has to fill is less, causing the boost to go up earlier.

email me at geoff@full-race.com ill answer any questions i can

its a true divided manifold, but i doubt the shearer manifold is much like ours?

thanks max power, thats exactly right

pricing will be finalized this week, we were trying to work out a few details on intercooler costs.

personally, I would prefer a twinscroll setup on a 2.0 than a single scroll on a 2.3, the response from twinscroll is just so incredibly quick and crisp, there is nothing like it. i think Ted B can attest to that

what he said

alot of people think our prices are the the roof and we're getting rich, but i drive a 94 4 runner with 180k miles on it, the truth is it costs more to make perfect parts

thanks for the discussion guys

240Z TwinTurbo

iTrader: (25)

Scorke,

I have run top/bottom flow cores on many applications, but it is usually dictated by space requirements. The nice thing about the top/bottom flow cores is the reduction in flow path decreases the pressure drop across the core as compared to left/right flowing units with a similar surface area. However, because the time across the core is shorter the efficiency drops, but because you increase the area of the flow path you gain back what you lost due to the reduction in flow path(contact with the core).

You would really need to have someone test the cores and compare the efficiency numbers. If I look in my old Spearco catalogs the top/bottom flow cores where usually rated with the highest efficiency and lowest pressure drop.

I personally would not mind running either unit, just more of an aesthetics issue.

Geoff Raicer

iTrader: (7)

that sums it up right there! there were some good photos of some F1 intercoolers posted on here in the intercooling thread by robertrinaustin

kusanagi

does the vertical intercooler allow retaining the front crash beam and stock undertray?

Geoff Raicer

iTrader: (7)

yes it keeps the crash beam and stock undertray. we are going to do a test on an almost stock evo9. then we will install a 40R on the stock engine to see what we can do

Max Power

iTrader: (1)

Aww man, I don't even have my car back yet and my 3076 is already getting blown out of the water

kusanagi

just to clarify ...does the front crash beam or stock undertray need to be cut to accomadate this kit?

alpha

iTrader: (3)

Full-Race makes great products. The research and design is there. I have been using their products since 2003 I think. Either way a long time, hah. Geoff is a standup guy as well. Cant wait to see their exhaust manifolds on some EVO's! Geoff. Want to send me a twin scroll exhaust manifold to test on an EVO 9

chuntington101

Full-Race Geoff, thanks for answering the questions

just a qucik one though, why are you saying this manifold will only go upto the GT40??? have you no intentions of doing a 42R kit with the divided manifold???

thanks again,

Chris.