*NEW* ETS 57 trim turbo kit
Aug 5, 2007, 07:12 PM
#32
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Less efficient and lower power potential? 57Trim = 47lbs/min to 50Trim = 50lbs/min. Not sure if I'm reading the charts correctly to interpret max flow. Is it simply marking the point of the outermost curve?
Aug 6, 2007, 04:43 AM
#34
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I hope this is resolved fast. Tom any input as to the efficency of the 57trim compared to 50 trim. why go with either and if the 57 isn't too efficient then should you just step up to a 60trim, what's the compressor map to that look like. Would the 60trim be a better candidate for pump-meth @ 30+psi ?
Last edited by Duby; Aug 6, 2007 at 04:43 AM. Reason: couldn't spell
Aug 6, 2007, 05:04 AM
#35
It shouldn't be.
Here's the map for the 60-trim:
60 trim
As you will note, there is very little static flow advantage to the 60-trim, and this is more than offset by the lesser efficiency of the 60 trim at high pressure ratios (where max power is made).
The more I look into this, the better the 50 trim appears. Compared to the others, it has huge islands of peak efficiency, and is more efficient than any of the 54, 57, and 60 at high PR.
Here's the map for the 60-trim:
60 trim
As you will note, there is very little static flow advantage to the 60-trim, and this is more than offset by the lesser efficiency of the 60 trim at high pressure ratios (where max power is made).
The more I look into this, the better the 50 trim appears. Compared to the others, it has huge islands of peak efficiency, and is more efficient than any of the 54, 57, and 60 at high PR.
Aug 6, 2007, 09:48 AM
#36
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wow...this thread really took off.
Before people starts to say this 50 trim and 57 trim is no good or i should just get the 60 trim and other stuff, lets just wait till Duggy (uglyevo) gets his car fully tuned and hits the dyno. I also got the 57 trim from ETS and i believe i was the second guy to get this great deal through them. I will also post dyno numbers and my review of this kit. I know there are alot of very smart 4G63 people and turbo guru here but lets all of just wait till we have some solid dyno numbers and feedback from Duggy and I and I just talked to Tom and he will be posting along with the shop owner JR about this matter and maybe somethings will get resolved. But until we have solid data....lets not judge.
Before people starts to say this 50 trim and 57 trim is no good or i should just get the 60 trim and other stuff, lets just wait till Duggy (uglyevo) gets his car fully tuned and hits the dyno. I also got the 57 trim from ETS and i believe i was the second guy to get this great deal through them. I will also post dyno numbers and my review of this kit. I know there are alot of very smart 4G63 people and turbo guru here but lets all of just wait till we have some solid dyno numbers and feedback from Duggy and I and I just talked to Tom and he will be posting along with the shop owner JR about this matter and maybe somethings will get resolved. But until we have solid data....lets not judge.
Aug 6, 2007, 10:26 AM
#37
No one used the term "no good", so let's not exaggerate anything. I'm just providing Garrett's technical data, which shows the 57 trim to be smaller than the 50 trim efficiency wise, not larger. As to how much of a difference this makes in the real world probably depends upon the application. However, given the maps of the 50, 54, 57, and 60 trim, it doesn't take a genius to see why the 50 trim is by far the most popular of the three.
Just FYI
Just FYI
Aug 6, 2007, 10:41 AM
#38
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^^i totally understand what you are saying and i seen the maps...great find BTW but let me ask you this....then why does people choose various trims?? Why not just go and get the 50 trim and call it good?? Why does all of these manufacturer of turbos spend thousand and thousands of dollars R/D the stuff?? why not just have a 50 trim and say hell with everything else?? All i care about is WHP and so by your posts are you saying that due to efficiency maps being lower on the 57 trim and other trims are not gonna yield higher WHP than a 50trim?? Why does manufacturers claim that 50 trim is good for 500whp and 57 trim good for 550whp...and so on and so on?? Is more efficiency= greater whp?? Just curious....i am trying to understand this whole efficiency and whp thing!!! 
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Last edited by SickSilverNLow; Aug 6, 2007 at 10:47 AM.
Aug 6, 2007, 12:22 PM
#40
....All i care about is WHP and so by your posts are you saying that due to efficiency maps being lower on the 57 trim and other trims are not gonna yield higher WHP than a 50trim?? Why does manufacturers claim that 50 trim is good for 500whp and 57 trim good for 550whp...and so on and so on?? Is more efficiency= greater whp??
Different compressor trims exist is because some may be better suited toward a specific airflow demands and pressure ratios than others. Some appear to be very well suited for a wide variety of applications, while others appear to be best suited for not much at all. It's just what happens when a manufacturer mixes and matches the various parts they produce into a multitude of possible combinations.
Different compressor trim configurations affect efficiency at different mass air flow and pressure ranges. Greater efficiency means the compressor is converting more of its energy into compressing air and less of it into waste heat. Greater efficiency = more power potential.
Aug 6, 2007, 12:35 PM
#41
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if you go to precision website and i also talked to a rep. they have these turbos rated at different whp and such...so if a 57 trim can yield around 550whp and a 50 trim can yield 500whp, acccording to your theory 57 trim has a greater efficiency, due to higher power potential 
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well....as soon as i get mine back from English Racing i will post my numbers and let them do the talking and maybe this will get resolved.
.well....as soon as i get mine back from English Racing i will post my numbers and let them do the talking and maybe this will get resolved.
Aug 6, 2007, 01:22 PM
#43
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finally got the mitsulogger working on my laptop so I went out and did a few pulls. I wasn't able to go all out in 4th but I did come up with a couple counts of knock in certain areas, so I believe this may also have affected a bit of the power at the track. I think this is due to the E85 put in after the tune compared to an E90 mix during the tune. So I took out some timing for now until I have more time to work on it
Aug 6, 2007, 01:56 PM
#44
Written by our owner JR and posted for him by me
Compressor maps are valid and we do reference them when designing any kit for any application. We use the maps to get close, but we rely on real world testing for our final decisions. It has been our experience that the 50 trim turbos do great at 26psi and less, and below 7200rpm. For most true pump gas ( 93oct. no meth, not e85 ) applications the 50 trim is a very good choice, as detonation is the main limiting factor, not airflow. For the kit on uglyevos car, we went with the 57 trim because he wants to run 28-30psi, and shift at 7800rpm. We felt that the 50 trim was just a bit small for this application, and since we already know that the 50 trim is a proven set up we wanted to try the 57trim since it has proven itself to produce more power than the 50trim on other applications that we have tested ( 1g&2g DSM, B18 Honda, sr20, KA24 ). Although these are not EVOs, they all have shown a consistent pattern in respect of 50 vs 57 trim. The pattern is that the 50 just doesn’t have the high boost or high RPM flow potential that the 57 trim has. On the 2.0L engines the 50 trim starts going flat after 26psi and 22psi on the 2.4L. Also on the 4g63’s the 50 trim starts flattening out at 7200. As this was on the DSM’s it was not a problem, as they didn’t rev nearly as high as most EVO owners do. Since the EVO comes with 19psi stock boost, we felt that we wanted the option of a turbo that could do well at 28-30psi, and pull hard to redline at 7800-8000rpm. From our experience the 50 trim would not offer a substancial improvement over the stock turbo, especially on the Evo IX. This is our basis for using the 57trim for applications up to 30psi.
The maps posted here are not scaled the same as each other thus making it hard to make an apples to apples visual comparison. Theory and practice often times turns up different results and that is what we have found to be the case with the 50 vs 57 trim turbos. According to the general airflow rule set forth by Garrett, it takes approx. 10lbs/min of air per 100hp. To make 450whp will require approx. 500bhp ( crank hp ) and thus will require 50lbs/min of air. Most EVOs making this kind of power are running around 28lbs of boost. In most cases, 28lbs of boost will be approx a 2.90 pressure ratio, ( depending upon elevation, Filter & Mas restrictions, etc. ). If you map anything shy of a T61 at a 2.90 pressure ratio, and 50lb/min for the flow ratings the point will be off the chart to the right. According to the MAPs the 50 and 57 trim turbos should not be able to make the kind of power that we have seen them make in real life. Even a 430whp 50 trim is not operating in its efficiency zone ( as far as the maps are concerned ), but we find that a 50 trim at 430whp is a very good set up in real life. We feel our decision to use the 57trim for a target of 450whp is sound, the maps may not agree, but real life experience shows otherwise.
The ideal turbo ( excluding GT series turbos ) for 450whp according to the maps is a T66. Not a good street turbo!
We don't feel the need to argue for or against any of the turbochargers in our EVO turbo kit lineup which is why we include every single one of these in T3 platform: 50, 57, 60, 61 or 67. We also offer 61, 63, 66, 67, 68, 70, 71, 72 and 74 in T4 configuration and the GT42R in 4202 or 4276 sizes. We do that to make sure we can select a turbocharger to meet any customer's need or goal. Pick your poison
Duggy (uglyevo) and Monty's (SickSilverNLow) goals of 25-30psi regular use with spool very suitable for street use makes the 57 a great choice. Being that both our T3 and T4 platforms are 100% upgradable without anything other than a turbo change, setups can almost change on a whim without breaking the bank.
Compressor maps are valid and we do reference them when designing any kit for any application. We use the maps to get close, but we rely on real world testing for our final decisions. It has been our experience that the 50 trim turbos do great at 26psi and less, and below 7200rpm. For most true pump gas ( 93oct. no meth, not e85 ) applications the 50 trim is a very good choice, as detonation is the main limiting factor, not airflow. For the kit on uglyevos car, we went with the 57 trim because he wants to run 28-30psi, and shift at 7800rpm. We felt that the 50 trim was just a bit small for this application, and since we already know that the 50 trim is a proven set up we wanted to try the 57trim since it has proven itself to produce more power than the 50trim on other applications that we have tested ( 1g&2g DSM, B18 Honda, sr20, KA24 ). Although these are not EVOs, they all have shown a consistent pattern in respect of 50 vs 57 trim. The pattern is that the 50 just doesn’t have the high boost or high RPM flow potential that the 57 trim has. On the 2.0L engines the 50 trim starts going flat after 26psi and 22psi on the 2.4L. Also on the 4g63’s the 50 trim starts flattening out at 7200. As this was on the DSM’s it was not a problem, as they didn’t rev nearly as high as most EVO owners do. Since the EVO comes with 19psi stock boost, we felt that we wanted the option of a turbo that could do well at 28-30psi, and pull hard to redline at 7800-8000rpm. From our experience the 50 trim would not offer a substancial improvement over the stock turbo, especially on the Evo IX. This is our basis for using the 57trim for applications up to 30psi.
The maps posted here are not scaled the same as each other thus making it hard to make an apples to apples visual comparison. Theory and practice often times turns up different results and that is what we have found to be the case with the 50 vs 57 trim turbos. According to the general airflow rule set forth by Garrett, it takes approx. 10lbs/min of air per 100hp. To make 450whp will require approx. 500bhp ( crank hp ) and thus will require 50lbs/min of air. Most EVOs making this kind of power are running around 28lbs of boost. In most cases, 28lbs of boost will be approx a 2.90 pressure ratio, ( depending upon elevation, Filter & Mas restrictions, etc. ). If you map anything shy of a T61 at a 2.90 pressure ratio, and 50lb/min for the flow ratings the point will be off the chart to the right. According to the MAPs the 50 and 57 trim turbos should not be able to make the kind of power that we have seen them make in real life. Even a 430whp 50 trim is not operating in its efficiency zone ( as far as the maps are concerned ), but we find that a 50 trim at 430whp is a very good set up in real life. We feel our decision to use the 57trim for a target of 450whp is sound, the maps may not agree, but real life experience shows otherwise.
The ideal turbo ( excluding GT series turbos ) for 450whp according to the maps is a T66. Not a good street turbo!
We don't feel the need to argue for or against any of the turbochargers in our EVO turbo kit lineup which is why we include every single one of these in T3 platform: 50, 57, 60, 61 or 67. We also offer 61, 63, 66, 67, 68, 70, 71, 72 and 74 in T4 configuration and the GT42R in 4202 or 4276 sizes. We do that to make sure we can select a turbocharger to meet any customer's need or goal. Pick your poison
Duggy (uglyevo) and Monty's (SickSilverNLow) goals of 25-30psi regular use with spool very suitable for street use makes the 57 a great choice. Being that both our T3 and T4 platforms are 100% upgradable without anything other than a turbo change, setups can almost change on a whim without breaking the bank.