*NEW* ETS 57 trim turbo kit
Aug 17, 2007, 06:44 AM
#76
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Aug 17, 2007, 08:48 AM
#77
Written by our owner JR and posted for him by me 
Compressor maps are valid and we do reference them when designing any kit for any application. We use the maps to get close, but we rely on real world testing for our final decisions. It has been our experience that the 50 trim turbos do great at 26psi and less, and below 7200rpm. For most true pump gas ( 93oct. no meth, not e85 ) applications the 50 trim is a very good choice, as detonation is the main limiting factor, not airflow. For the kit on uglyevos car, we went with the 57 trim because he wants to run 28-30psi, and shift at 7800rpm. We felt that the 50 trim was just a bit small for this application, and since we already know that the 50 trim is a proven set up we wanted to try the 57trim since it has proven itself to produce more power than the 50trim on other applications that we have tested ( 1g&2g DSM, B18 Honda, sr20, KA24 ). Although these are not EVOs, they all have shown a consistent pattern in respect of 50 vs 57 trim. The pattern is that the 50 just doesn’t have the high boost or high RPM flow potential that the 57 trim has. On the 2.0L engines the 50 trim starts going flat after 26psi and 22psi on the 2.4L. Also on the 4g63’s the 50 trim starts flattening out at 7200. As this was on the DSM’s it was not a problem, as they didn’t rev nearly as high as most EVO owners do. Since the EVO comes with 19psi stock boost, we felt that we wanted the option of a turbo that could do well at 28-30psi, and pull hard to redline at 7800-8000rpm. From our experience the 50 trim would not offer a substancial improvement over the stock turbo, especially on the Evo IX. This is our basis for using the 57trim for applications up to 30psi.
The maps posted here are not scaled the same as each other thus making it hard to make an apples to apples visual comparison. Theory and practice often times turns up different results and that is what we have found to be the case with the 50 vs 57 trim turbos. According to the general airflow rule set forth by Garrett, it takes approx. 10lbs/min of air per 100hp. To make 450whp will require approx. 500bhp ( crank hp ) and thus will require 50lbs/min of air. Most EVOs making this kind of power are running around 28lbs of boost. In most cases, 28lbs of boost will be approx a 2.90 pressure ratio, ( depending upon elevation, Filter & Mas restrictions, etc. ). If you map anything shy of a T61 at a 2.90 pressure ratio, and 50lb/min for the flow ratings the point will be off the chart to the right. According to the MAPs the 50 and 57 trim turbos should not be able to make the kind of power that we have seen them make in real life. Even a 430whp 50 trim is not operating in its efficiency zone ( as far as the maps are concerned ), but we find that a 50 trim at 430whp is a very good set up in real life. We feel our decision to use the 57trim for a target of 450whp is sound, the maps may not agree, but real life experience shows otherwise.
The ideal turbo ( excluding GT series turbos ) for 450whp according to the maps is a T66. Not a good street turbo!
We don't feel the need to argue for or against any of the turbochargers in our EVO turbo kit lineup which is why we include every single one of these in T3 platform: 50, 57, 60, 61 or 67. We also offer 61, 63, 66, 67, 68, 70, 71, 72 and 74 in T4 configuration and the GT42R in 4202 or 4276 sizes. We do that to make sure we can select a turbocharger to meet any customer's need or goal. Pick your poison
Duggy (uglyevo) and Monty's (SickSilverNLow) goals of 25-30psi regular use with spool very suitable for street use makes the 57 a great choice. Being that both our T3 and T4 platforms are 100% upgradable without anything other than a turbo change, setups can almost change on a whim without breaking the bank.
Compressor maps are valid and we do reference them when designing any kit for any application. We use the maps to get close, but we rely on real world testing for our final decisions. It has been our experience that the 50 trim turbos do great at 26psi and less, and below 7200rpm. For most true pump gas ( 93oct. no meth, not e85 ) applications the 50 trim is a very good choice, as detonation is the main limiting factor, not airflow. For the kit on uglyevos car, we went with the 57 trim because he wants to run 28-30psi, and shift at 7800rpm. We felt that the 50 trim was just a bit small for this application, and since we already know that the 50 trim is a proven set up we wanted to try the 57trim since it has proven itself to produce more power than the 50trim on other applications that we have tested ( 1g&2g DSM, B18 Honda, sr20, KA24 ). Although these are not EVOs, they all have shown a consistent pattern in respect of 50 vs 57 trim. The pattern is that the 50 just doesn’t have the high boost or high RPM flow potential that the 57 trim has. On the 2.0L engines the 50 trim starts going flat after 26psi and 22psi on the 2.4L. Also on the 4g63’s the 50 trim starts flattening out at 7200. As this was on the DSM’s it was not a problem, as they didn’t rev nearly as high as most EVO owners do. Since the EVO comes with 19psi stock boost, we felt that we wanted the option of a turbo that could do well at 28-30psi, and pull hard to redline at 7800-8000rpm. From our experience the 50 trim would not offer a substancial improvement over the stock turbo, especially on the Evo IX. This is our basis for using the 57trim for applications up to 30psi.
The maps posted here are not scaled the same as each other thus making it hard to make an apples to apples visual comparison. Theory and practice often times turns up different results and that is what we have found to be the case with the 50 vs 57 trim turbos. According to the general airflow rule set forth by Garrett, it takes approx. 10lbs/min of air per 100hp. To make 450whp will require approx. 500bhp ( crank hp ) and thus will require 50lbs/min of air. Most EVOs making this kind of power are running around 28lbs of boost. In most cases, 28lbs of boost will be approx a 2.90 pressure ratio, ( depending upon elevation, Filter & Mas restrictions, etc. ). If you map anything shy of a T61 at a 2.90 pressure ratio, and 50lb/min for the flow ratings the point will be off the chart to the right. According to the MAPs the 50 and 57 trim turbos should not be able to make the kind of power that we have seen them make in real life. Even a 430whp 50 trim is not operating in its efficiency zone ( as far as the maps are concerned ), but we find that a 50 trim at 430whp is a very good set up in real life. We feel our decision to use the 57trim for a target of 450whp is sound, the maps may not agree, but real life experience shows otherwise.
The ideal turbo ( excluding GT series turbos ) for 450whp according to the maps is a T66. Not a good street turbo!
We don't feel the need to argue for or against any of the turbochargers in our EVO turbo kit lineup which is why we include every single one of these in T3 platform: 50, 57, 60, 61 or 67. We also offer 61, 63, 66, 67, 68, 70, 71, 72 and 74 in T4 configuration and the GT42R in 4202 or 4276 sizes. We do that to make sure we can select a turbocharger to meet any customer's need or goal. Pick your poison
Duggy (uglyevo) and Monty's (SickSilverNLow) goals of 25-30psi regular use with spool very suitable for street use makes the 57 a great choice. Being that both our T3 and T4 platforms are 100% upgradable without anything other than a turbo change, setups can almost change on a whim without breaking the bank.
I'm looking forward to Monty (SickSilverNLow) posting his dyno graph from yesterday on the 57 trim kit. I hear the results are quite good
Tom
Aug 17, 2007, 02:08 PM
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50trim = 50trim
54trim = 50trim with slightly better top end
57/58 trim = BR 3065
60trim = IDK maybe a little better then a BR3065
60-1 = similar to a 35r
35r=35r lol
that's as basic as I get. I really don't know but from what I've read and with similar spool up times and hp ratings. DO the math or research, It's not rocket science. It just makes sense.
I could be wrong but hey that's just my inturpretation.
that and I don't spell that well, cheers
Aug 17, 2007, 02:28 PM
#81
Tom
Aug 17, 2007, 04:46 PM
#82
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Rumor has it that this same kit on an Evo 8 put out over 400whp on pump gas with a very very conservative tune yesterday!
Knowing this I may try and dyno mine with a weak clutch and race gas sunday.
Knowing this I may try and dyno mine with a weak clutch and race gas sunday.
Aug 17, 2007, 05:01 PM
#83
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The most widely used version of the 3076R is a 57mm compressor wheel. The 3065 doesn't have wheel size information available but from the power numbers appears to be sized just a bit shy of a 61mm compressor wheel which is what a 35R uses. Our T3 lineup goes 54mm (50 trim) , 56mm (57 trim) , 58mm, 60mm, 61mm, 67mm.
Tom
Tom
Aug 18, 2007, 06:02 AM
#84
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Originally Posted by Duby
50trim = 50trim
54trim = 50trim with slightly better top end
57/58 trim = BR 3065
60trim = IDK maybe a little better then a BR3065
60-1 = similar to a 35r
35r=35r lol
that's as basic as I get. I really don't know but from what I've read and with similar spool up times and hp ratings. DO the math or research, It's not rocket science. It just makes sense.
I could be wrong but hey that's just my inturpretation.
that and I don't spell that well, cheers
54trim = 50trim with slightly better top end
57/58 trim = BR 3065
60trim = IDK maybe a little better then a BR3065
60-1 = similar to a 35r
35r=35r lol
that's as basic as I get. I really don't know but from what I've read and with similar spool up times and hp ratings. DO the math or research, It's not rocket science. It just makes sense.
I could be wrong but hey that's just my inturpretation.
that and I don't spell that well, cheers
The most widely used version of the 3076R is a 57mm compressor wheel. The 3065 doesn't have wheel size information available but from the power numbers appears to be sized just a bit shy of a 61mm compressor wheel which is what a 35R uses. Our T3 lineup goes 54mm (50 trim) , 56mm (57 trim) , 58mm, 60mm, 61mm, 67mm.
Tom
Tom
It's your willingness to share and inform us that has me sold on getting one of your turbo set-ups.
Now I just need to decide what will be right for me.
Aug 18, 2007, 06:14 AM
#85
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same as you dude, just need to decide what one to go for, Toms been great answered all my pm's quickly.
had a look at some vids of gt35rs on you tube and the powerband is really silly, from like 5k-7k then shift, thats so lame, tempted with something smaller now
had a look at some vids of gt35rs on you tube and the powerband is really silly, from like 5k-7k then shift, thats so lame, tempted with something smaller now
Aug 18, 2007, 09:24 PM
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Aug 18, 2007, 10:14 PM
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SickSilvernLow already had his car dynoed this last thursday and got some good numbers on pump, I will be going on the dyno tomorrow with race gas. I just hope my clutch holds good enough to get me decent numbers
Aug 19, 2007, 05:15 AM
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just waiting till you guys put some numbers down and im able to see spool up, to be honest im tempted with the 57 trim, it should be more than enough power to keep me happy, BUT if it isn't, it's not too much of a problem to upgrade to larger turbo from what i hear which is sick.
Aug 20, 2007, 08:05 AM
#89
yeh im 100% gonna order from ETS with the FMIC kit (as long as 3.5 core fits behind my c-west front)
just waiting till you guys put some numbers down and im able to see spool up, to be honest im tempted with the 57 trim, it should be more than enough power to keep me happy, BUT if it isn't, it's not too much of a problem to upgrade to larger turbo from what i hear which is sick.
just waiting till you guys put some numbers down and im able to see spool up, to be honest im tempted with the 57 trim, it should be more than enough power to keep me happy, BUT if it isn't, it's not too much of a problem to upgrade to larger turbo from what i hear which is sick.
Tom
Aug 20, 2007, 02:09 PM
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The most widely used version of the 3076R is a 57mm compressor wheel. The 3065 doesn't have wheel size information available but from the power numbers appears to be sized just a bit shy of a 61mm compressor wheel which is what a 35R uses. Our T3 lineup goes 54mm (50 trim) , 56mm (57 trim) , 58mm, 60mm, 61mm, 67mm.
Tom
Tom