Best way to get 400-450hp.
Aug 12, 2007, 10:21 PM
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Best way to get 400-450hp.
Whats the best way to pull about 400-450hp at the crank? Looking to do it on pump gas alone. No alky, no meth, no stroker/displacement up. And I also want spool as close to stock as possible. Also needs to be reliable as possible since this thing will be pushed to the limit for long periods of time.
Here's what I was thinking:
Evogreen ceramic coated
Aftermarket headers
Injectors (what size?)
Cams (HKS 272s)
Valvetrain (want to do this for reliability)
Studs
Bigger IC
Better intake
Reflash or a piggy back, which ones would work best?
Vostok 7
Here's what I was thinking:
Evogreen ceramic coated
Aftermarket headers
Injectors (what size?)
Cams (HKS 272s)
Valvetrain (want to do this for reliability)
Studs
Bigger IC
Better intake
Reflash or a piggy back, which ones would work best?
Vostok 7
Aug 12, 2007, 10:36 PM
#2
Useless question, because we can't measure at the crank, and because of that, there's no reason to have crank HP as a goal.
So, how much do you want to the wheels on what type of dyno, what correction factor, which tuner, how much boost, what octane (91, 93, 94, 100?), what altitude, and in what weather conditions.? We can help you with that. After you reach that number, you can apply whatever drivetrain loss % you want and brag about how much crank HP you think you have.
So, how much do you want to the wheels on what type of dyno, what correction factor, which tuner, how much boost, what octane (91, 93, 94, 100?), what altitude, and in what weather conditions.? We can help you with that. After you reach that number, you can apply whatever drivetrain loss % you want and brag about how much crank HP you think you have.
Aug 12, 2007, 10:41 PM
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Useless question, because we can't measure at the crank, and because of that, there's no reason to have crank HP as a goal.
So, how much do you want to the wheels on what type of dyno, what correction factor, which tuner, how much boost, what octane (91, 93, 94, 100?), what altitude, and in what weather conditions.? We can help you with that. After you reach that number, you can apply whatever drivetrain loss % you want and brag about how much crank HP you think you have.
So, how much do you want to the wheels on what type of dyno, what correction factor, which tuner, how much boost, what octane (91, 93, 94, 100?), what altitude, and in what weather conditions.? We can help you with that. After you reach that number, you can apply whatever drivetrain loss % you want and brag about how much crank HP you think you have.
I had around 300awhp on my Evo. I'd like to see at least 350awhp, but really, what could I safely see with an Evogreen and supporting mods?
Vostok 7
Aug 12, 2007, 11:00 PM
#4
lol Evom members put way too much thought into answering a simple *** question.
Evogreen ceramic coated (any turbo .57 trim or larger)
Aftermarket headers (you will need a manifold for the turbo)
Injectors (what size?) (at least 750's)
Cams (HKS 272s) (272's will work fine)
Valvetrain (want to do this for reliability) (dont really need to do anything unless you want higher revs.)
Studs (yes of course. get arp)
Bigger IC (something in the range of 12x28x3 at least)Better intake (try to route it as far from hot air as possible)
Reflash or a piggy back, which ones would work best? (A reflash will work ok. unless you want total control and cost isnt an option. then go with AEM)
there ya go. simple answers. there are lots more options for each question, but im sure your a smart one and can figure them out.
Evogreen ceramic coated (any turbo .57 trim or larger)
Aftermarket headers (you will need a manifold for the turbo)
Injectors (what size?) (at least 750's)
Cams (HKS 272s) (272's will work fine)
Valvetrain (want to do this for reliability) (dont really need to do anything unless you want higher revs.)
Studs (yes of course. get arp)
Bigger IC (something in the range of 12x28x3 at least)Better intake (try to route it as far from hot air as possible)
Reflash or a piggy back, which ones would work best? (A reflash will work ok. unless you want total control and cost isnt an option. then go with AEM)
there ya go. simple answers. there are lots more options for each question, but im sure your a smart one and can figure them out.
Aug 12, 2007, 11:10 PM
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lol Evom members put way too much thought into answering a simple *** question.
Evogreen ceramic coated (any turbo .57 trim or larger)
Aftermarket headers (you will need a manifold for the turbo)
Injectors (what size?) (at least 750's)
Cams (HKS 272s) (272's will work fine)
Valvetrain (want to do this for reliability) (dont really need to do anything unless you want higher revs.)
Studs (yes of course. get arp)
Bigger IC (something in the range of 12x28x3 at least)Better intake (try to route it as far from hot air as possible)
Reflash or a piggy back, which ones would work best? (A reflash will work ok. unless you want total control and cost isnt an option. then go with AEM)
there ya go. simple answers. there are lots more options for each question, but im sure your a smart one and can figure them out.
Evogreen ceramic coated (any turbo .57 trim or larger)
Aftermarket headers (you will need a manifold for the turbo)
Injectors (what size?) (at least 750's)
Cams (HKS 272s) (272's will work fine)
Valvetrain (want to do this for reliability) (dont really need to do anything unless you want higher revs.)
Studs (yes of course. get arp)
Bigger IC (something in the range of 12x28x3 at least)Better intake (try to route it as far from hot air as possible)
Reflash or a piggy back, which ones would work best? (A reflash will work ok. unless you want total control and cost isnt an option. then go with AEM)
there ya go. simple answers. there are lots more options for each question, but im sure your a smart one and can figure them out.
Pretty much the answers I needed!I think the biggest thing holding me up is what EM to use. On the Subies it's easy 'cause there's pretty much only two or three choices, and most of those are just reflashes. In the Evo world, I'm at a total loss since just about everything works with them seems like.
Why AEM over something like Greddy? Would I need a MIVEC controller as well or will just a reflash/piggy back alone work fine? And what about MAFTPRO running speed density? I'd love to ditch the MAF...
Vostok 7
Last edited by Vostok 7; Aug 12, 2007 at 11:55 PM.
Aug 12, 2007, 11:11 PM
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I'm planning on doing everything and then going with a turbo as a last resort if I can't get what I'm looking for.
Vostok 7
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Aug 13, 2007, 06:32 AM
#8
SUPERMAC, you didn't even answer the question. Commenting on the individual mods has nothing to do with the question of how to get "400-450 crank hp." Now that he has said 350whp, then it's simple. First of all, you don't need a turbo upgrade, which means you don't need the injectors, studs, valvetrain, fmic, header, or EM. You just do basic stg1 mods, some cams, an o2 housing, licp, and a custom flash. I can't believe that guy said a 57-trim or higher - wtf?
However, all of this information is painfully covered in hundreds of threads. All it takes is a little bit of time spent searching.
However, all of this information is painfully covered in hundreds of threads. All it takes is a little bit of time spent searching.
Aug 13, 2007, 06:57 AM
#9
I agree with what Warrtalon just said. A turbo upgrade is NOT needed.
Vostok 7..... is there anything done to the car right now or is it 100% stock? What is the overall goal with the car? Just the horsepower # or are you wanting to race/track the car?
I'll be glad to lend a hand and point you in the right direction.
Take care!
Vostok 7..... is there anything done to the car right now or is it 100% stock? What is the overall goal with the car? Just the horsepower # or are you wanting to race/track the car?
I'll be glad to lend a hand and point you in the right direction.
Take care!
Aug 13, 2007, 11:25 AM
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I agree with what Warrtalon just said. A turbo upgrade is NOT needed.
Vostok 7..... is there anything done to the car right now or is it 100% stock? What is the overall goal with the car? Just the horsepower # or are you wanting to race/track the car?
I'll be glad to lend a hand and point you in the right direction.
Take care!
Vostok 7..... is there anything done to the car right now or is it 100% stock? What is the overall goal with the car? Just the horsepower # or are you wanting to race/track the car?
I'll be glad to lend a hand and point you in the right direction.
Take care!
The car is going to be a high speed race car (High Speed Open Road Racing), but it's also going to be a semi-daily driver so it needs to be livable too.
One challenge I always had with the WRX and the STi is the fact that most of the racing I do is above 5000ft elevation which is horrible on your turbo lag. That's why I've been VERY hesitant about running anything bigger than maybe a GT3071R, but really the Evogreen seems like it'll get me what I want without too much sacrifice.
As far as the valvetrain I was looking at that as a reliability mod since these races are pretty tough on these low-geared cars. It's about 100 miles cruising at 145mph the whole time. In my STi that meant around 5000-5500rpm cruising. That, along with high temperatures since we're in the desert in Nevada is what caused my STi to blow a radiator hose last race it ran
Fortunately my tune was pretty good, I was worried I had blown an engine though! I just want to make sure that the topend can handle that sort of stress.I've been looking into the MAFTpro a lot and it seems like a good option for tuning. Running MAFless is VERY tempting particularly with the altitude we're running at.
Vostok 7
Aug 13, 2007, 11:29 AM
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lol Evom members put way too much thought into answering a simple *** question.
Evogreen ceramic coated (any turbo .57 trim or larger)
Aftermarket headers (you will need a manifold for the turbo)
Injectors (what size?) (at least 750's)
Cams (HKS 272s) (272's will work fine)
Valvetrain (want to do this for reliability) (dont really need to do anything unless you want higher revs.)
Studs (yes of course. get arp)
Bigger IC (something in the range of 12x28x3 at least)Better intake (try to route it as far from hot air as possible)
Reflash or a piggy back, which ones would work best? (A reflash will work ok. unless you want total control and cost isnt an option. then go with AEM)
there ya go. simple answers. there are lots more options for each question, but im sure your a smart one and can figure them out.
Evogreen ceramic coated (any turbo .57 trim or larger)
Aftermarket headers (you will need a manifold for the turbo)
Injectors (what size?) (at least 750's)
Cams (HKS 272s) (272's will work fine)
Valvetrain (want to do this for reliability) (dont really need to do anything unless you want higher revs.)
Studs (yes of course. get arp)
Bigger IC (something in the range of 12x28x3 at least)Better intake (try to route it as far from hot air as possible)
Reflash or a piggy back, which ones would work best? (A reflash will work ok. unless you want total control and cost isnt an option. then go with AEM)
there ya go. simple answers. there are lots more options for each question, but im sure your a smart one and can figure them out.
Aug 13, 2007, 12:26 PM
#12
The car right now power wise is 100% stock.
The car is going to be a high speed race car (High Speed Open Road Racing), but it's also going to be a semi-daily driver so it needs to be livable too.
One challenge I always had with the WRX and the STi is the fact that most of the racing I do is above 5000ft elevation which is horrible on your turbo lag. That's why I've been VERY hesitant about running anything bigger than maybe a GT3071R, but really the Evogreen seems like it'll get me what I want without too much sacrifice.
As far as the valvetrain I was looking at that as a reliability mod since these races are pretty tough on these low-geared cars. It's about 100 miles cruising at 145mph the whole time. In my STi that meant around 5000-5500rpm cruising. That, along with high temperatures since we're in the desert in Nevada is what caused my STi to blow a radiator hose last race it ran Fortunately my tune was pretty good, I was worried I had blown an engine though! I just want to make sure that the topend can handle that sort of stress.
I've been looking into the MAFTpro a lot and it seems like a good option for tuning. Running MAFless is VERY tempting particularly with the altitude we're running at.
Vostok 7
The car is going to be a high speed race car (High Speed Open Road Racing), but it's also going to be a semi-daily driver so it needs to be livable too.
One challenge I always had with the WRX and the STi is the fact that most of the racing I do is above 5000ft elevation which is horrible on your turbo lag. That's why I've been VERY hesitant about running anything bigger than maybe a GT3071R, but really the Evogreen seems like it'll get me what I want without too much sacrifice.
As far as the valvetrain I was looking at that as a reliability mod since these races are pretty tough on these low-geared cars. It's about 100 miles cruising at 145mph the whole time. In my STi that meant around 5000-5500rpm cruising. That, along with high temperatures since we're in the desert in Nevada is what caused my STi to blow a radiator hose last race it ran
Fortunately my tune was pretty good, I was worried I had blown an engine though! I just want to make sure that the topend can handle that sort of stress.I've been looking into the MAFTpro a lot and it seems like a good option for tuning. Running MAFless is VERY tempting particularly with the altitude we're running at.
Vostok 7
We recommend at LEAST our stages 1-4 before considering a turbo upgrade. The stages 1-4 will allow the turbo to operate properly, safely and actually make it worth while to upgrade from your stock turbo. You may not want to upgrade the stock turbo once you feel the difference once its actually opened up and can breathe.
Our stages 1-4 include:
* BR EVO AIR FILTER KIT
* BR EVO 3" TURBOBACK EXHAUST
* BR MANUAL BOOST CONTROLLER
* BUSCHUR FLASH
* AUTOMETER 30-0-30 BOOST GAUGE
* COLUMN MOUNT GAUGE POD
* BR EVO MAF PIPE KIT
* BR EVO BATTERY KIT
* BR EVO UPPER I/C PIPE KIT (Setup for stock BOV)
* CHOICE OF BR EVOLUTION FMIC KIT (I would recommend the Race)
* UPGRADED CAMSHAFTS (HKS 264 or 272)
* WALBRO 255lph FUEL PUMP UPGRADE (can be done in ANY stage)
* 680cc FUEL INJECTOR UPGRADE
Along with stages 1-4 I recommend doing a upgraded clutch. Something along the lines of the Exedy Twin HD Cerametallic. This is something that will retain good driveability and hold up the the abuse you are going to give it.
From there if you wish to keep the stock turbo or do a bolt on turbo upgrade you can look into porting and coating the exhaust manifold, upgrading the 02 housing and porting out the turbine housing.
If you are wanting to upgrade the turbo you would decide what power level suits your needs. Personally I see the turbo sequence as 20G-9LT, 3065, 35R, 37R, etc....
The 20G-9LT is a great upgrade I think. It has good spool still, makes good power and doesnt carry a hefty price tag.
As for the cruising 100 miles at 145mph the entire time.... thats definately going to put some abuse on the car and its internals. The stock internals are pretty stout. They can handle a decent amount of abuse. I would recommend ARP headstuds for sure. You may also look into a set of valve springs & retainers for added safety.
Please let me know what other questions you have and what else I might be able to help with. I'll be glad to lend a hand.
Aug 13, 2007, 01:53 PM
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Oh! You're trying to build your car to be a daily driver but you also want to run it in the Silver State Classic Challange road race? That sounds fun. I never got around to doing it myself when I lived out there, but I do know what it's like to drive at 130-150 for over an hour in the high desert in a DSM. It was all about keeping everything cool. I haven't owned an EVO very long, so I'm not sure of their heating issues compared to the DSMs, so I can't say if the stock radiator is up to the task or not. I'm not sure about the MR's 6 speed, but I know for the 5 spds they have a taller 5th gear that, assuming you have the power, can keep you lower in the rpms at higher speeds. I'd also look at some of the funtional aerodynamic peices that are out on the market. Remember, power isn't everything.
Aug 13, 2007, 02:00 PM
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Pretty much the answers I needed!I think the biggest thing holding me up is what EM to use. On the Subies it's easy 'cause there's pretty much only two or three choices, and most of those are just reflashes. In the Evo world, I'm at a total loss since just about everything works with them seems like.
Why AEM over something like Greddy? Would I need a MIVEC controller as well or will just a reflash/piggy back alone work fine? And what about MAFTPRO running speed density? I'd love to ditch the MAF...
Vostok 7