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my engine blew....any thoughts and help?

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Old Aug 27, 2007 | 02:20 PM
  #226  
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No signs of detonation.
Old Aug 27, 2007 | 02:35 PM
  #227  
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From: in the middle of the pacific ocean
Originally Posted by gsnt
That ****'ll buff out!!

On a serious note, that head is most likely fixable. I've seen MUCH worse before going to the machine shop and it come back looking as good as new.

Good luck with everything. Feel free to give us a call if you have any questions or need anything at all.

Regards,
Eric
Thanks! you'll be getting a call from me sometime soon in the next few days so i can get me some forged goodies

Originally Posted by Jeff_Jeske
It looks like the other pistons may have had contact with the valves too. I don't think that really matters since its junk anyway. Are you planning on a built short block?
yes i am planning on building a new motor, top and bottom. instead of going back with wut i orginally have in my car now, i might as well go big and somewhat forget about blowing another motor
Old Aug 27, 2007 | 03:06 PM
  #228  
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From: C.A Honduras!
why not go with a complete engine from buschur or ams?
good luck on the build of your new engine
Old Aug 27, 2007 | 05:44 PM
  #229  
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From: in the middle of the pacific ocean
Originally Posted by jrsimon27
why not go with a complete engine from buschur or ams?
good luck on the build of your new engine
eehhh, the experience of building a motor is a thrill........assembling one and making its initial start makes you realize that you've done a good job putting it together.

but that's just me
Old Aug 27, 2007 | 07:51 PM
  #230  
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From: Internets
Originally Posted by Jackson Machine
In-chassis install of rod bolts is asking for trouble. The rods have to be resized because the new studs are going to pull different causing the housing bore to be out of round. It's kinda like dropping in forged pistons with the engine in the car, it can be done and there are shops that do it, but it's not right. You wont see the benefit of the upgrade.
Could you elaborate a bit more on the highlighted part please? This is the next thing for me and I'd like to know the cons of it.
Thanks,
BH
Old Aug 27, 2007 | 10:23 PM
  #231  
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Originally Posted by Brian_H
Could you elaborate a bit more on the highlighted part please? This is the next thing for me and I'd like to know the cons of it.
Thanks,
BH
Here is the non-jihad rodbolt replacement procedure I stole from someone, needless to say my rod bolts are o e m

You can do it with the block in the car. Pull the head. Clean and prep the block surface with scotch brite. Same with the head. Remove rod caps and pull pistons out. MARK EVERYTHING!. BE SANITARY! Wrap the crank with clean shop towells. Take the old top ring and wrap a cloth around it. Now slide it to the bottom of each cylinder. Carefully use a 3 stone hone and put a 60 degree cross hatch in the cylinders. 30-45 seconds per cylinder to remove the glaze. The last .5-1" the rings don't even touch so don't worry so much about this. Use WD-40 as your lubricant when honing. Clean each cylinder a billion times with kerosene till the rag wipes clean. Get **** with crank cleaning should take 30-50 mins of wiping and inspecting. Rering each piston with OEM rings (make sure gaps are correct, they usually are on OEM). Install pistons with NON DETERGENT oil from NAPA or similliar. Coat cylinder walls with this oil (30 wt should be fine). Slip in the bearings and coat with moly grease. torque down. If using ARP's at higher torque make sure rod's big end has been line honed for the new torque. Before headgasket clean head and block surface with acetone. Wipe till rag wipes clean (2-3 times). Get everything ready, have a friend around to drop the head on. Put a few light coats of silver 500 degree spray paint on each side of the headgasket. Allow to get tacky. Slip HG on motor (need new headbolts as stockers ARE NOT REUSEABLE). Quickly have friend help you slip on the head. Torque in 10 lb increments to the value you choose to run.
Old Aug 28, 2007 | 07:47 AM
  #232  
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Originally Posted by Brian_H
Could you elaborate a bit more on the highlighted part please? This is the next thing for me and I'd like to know the cons of it.
Thanks,
BH

Forged pistons have a different expansion rate than a cast piece so the block needs to be honed to get the proper piston to wall clearance. Sure, you can break the glaze with a ball hone or a 3-stone in a drill but there is no way to do it accurately. You can end up with high and low spots and the cylinders wont be located perpendicular to the crank. Not to mention most places that don't build engines for a living aren't going to have a torque plate. The torque of the head bolts/studs distorts the cylinders and the plate takes the place of the head. If you hone it without a plate, when you put the head on they cylinder is going to distort and the rings aren't going to seal as well.

The method that C6C6CH3vo posted above may be adequate for a stock rebuild but not for a performance engine. The hones that you get at the parts stores for doing it this way usually have a real rough stone in them. When you get a set of pistons they come with specs as to what grit the ring manufacturer wants you to hone the block to. This ensures that the rings come in properly. 9 times out of 10, the stones on the cheap hones are way too rough. Second, WD40 is NOT an acceptable lubricant. The lubricant in serves a couple purposes. It keeps the block cool while cutting which keeps the cylinders from building heat and distorting, or coming out of round. Second, it flushes away the material that is removed from the cylinders. You would have to use gallons of WD40 for it to be effective. Another problem with this method is that you will never be able to properly clean the block. You can wipe the cylinders all you want, but metal particles will inevitably find their way into the oil galleys and drain holes where you'll never be able to get them out.

Brian I hope this answers your questions. If not, just let me know.
Old Aug 28, 2007 | 02:45 PM
  #233  
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From: Pittsburgh, PA
Originally Posted by High_PSI
If you floored it from 3500-4000 and just let it spool in a higher gear, that may have caused it. With the Evo/DSM's just flooring it at lower RPMS in a higher gear puts a lot of strain and really affects the way the car pulls even in my 100% STOCK IX MR. If you downshift and up the revs the car just takes off but if I floor it from down low even if the boost hits 20PSI the car is barely pulling and feels slow as it accelerates. It's a weird thing and it is hard to explain but I believe the turbo spools too fast before the motor can handle it (surge) which I am sure happened if you just floored it in 4th gear at a low speed. I bet if you grabbed a lower gear, brought up the revs, this might not have happened.

Maybe someone could explain this better then me.
In higher gears, yes there is more load on the car and obviously the gear is larger, harder to move, so it feels slower. If you are tuned correctly, flooring it in 4th or 5th should not make any difference. The only difference would be maybe 1-3 counts of knock at the most due to the increased load and boost creep (if applicable.) IF we weren't supposed to floor it in 4th or 5th then there would be a lot more threads like this. I doubt this had anything to do with the OP's issue.
Old Aug 28, 2007 | 02:49 PM
  #234  
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From: Internets
Originally Posted by Jackson Machine
Forged pistons have a different expansion rate than a cast piece so the block needs to be honed to get the proper piston to wall clearance. Sure, you can break the glaze with a ball hone or a 3-stone in a drill but there is no way to do it accurately. You can end up with high and low spots and the cylinders wont be located perpendicular to the crank. Not to mention most places that don't build engines for a living aren't going to have a torque plate. The torque of the head bolts/studs distorts the cylinders and the plate takes the place of the head. If you hone it without a plate, when you put the head on they cylinder is going to distort and the rings aren't going to seal as well.

The method that C6C6CH3vo posted above may be adequate for a stock rebuild but not for a performance engine. The hones that you get at the parts stores for doing it this way usually have a real rough stone in them. When you get a set of pistons they come with specs as to what grit the ring manufacturer wants you to hone the block to. This ensures that the rings come in properly. 9 times out of 10, the stones on the cheap hones are way too rough. Second, WD40 is NOT an acceptable lubricant. The lubricant in serves a couple purposes. It keeps the block cool while cutting which keeps the cylinders from building heat and distorting, or coming out of round. Second, it flushes away the material that is removed from the cylinders. You would have to use gallons of WD40 for it to be effective. Another problem with this method is that you will never be able to properly clean the block. You can wipe the cylinders all you want, but metal particles will inevitably find their way into the oil galleys and drain holes where you'll never be able to get them out.

Brian I hope this answers your questions. If not, just let me know.

Definitely does answer my question, thanks for your response/time.


BH
Old Aug 28, 2007 | 05:33 PM
  #235  
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From: Kansas City, MO
Originally Posted by CO_VR4
Metal parts fatigue. The higher stress you put them under, the quicker they fatigue. The lower their original strength, the greater the risk when you "overstress" them. The parts don't necessarily fail at the time of greatest stress, and it is common to hear of cases like this when the failure happens at lower stress levels, and the owner cannot figure out why his motor grenaded "while he was just driving to 7-11." It's the cumulative impact of the stresses prior to that that caused the connecting rod bolts to stretch or the nut to work loose after it lost torque because of rod bolt stretch. Once the clamping capacity of the connecting rod system is compromised, the rest is inevitable, unless it's caught and new parts substituted.

Anybody who takes the time to read basic competition engine building books will know that there are two components in a factory engine that are most succeptable to failure with higher performance modifications -- connecting rod hardware, and valve springs. If either fails, you have an expensive repair to do. If you're going to build a high HP motor, put some dollars in the upgrade of critical parts and you'll sleep better at night.
Very informative. That sounds like this is what happened because he said he just had it on the dyno a day or two before. Good diagnosis.
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