457 TQ 430 WHP - Maxing out the stock injectors with 93 octane and alcky !
Aug 22, 2007, 10:04 AM
#32
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Last edited by xiaoni420; Aug 22, 2007 at 10:31 AM.
Aug 22, 2007, 11:32 AM
#33
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TTP is 100% correct on this matter. 10% of fuel was taken OUT of my stock injectors during my tune because I am injecting a sufficient amount of methanol. I am boosting around 29psi and at peak torque I am hitting 11.3a/f and it slowly creeps up to 11.5 by redline. The stock injectors will provide the car with plenty of fuel, as long as you have an adequate alcohol injection kit. 2 x 1.0mm nozzles provides me with a ton of methanol to keep 29lbs completely safe. I also have an amazing failsafe.
As the stock ecu / EFI system is vastly more refined and complex than a crude progressive based alchy system the car will run smoother and adapt to environmental changes better when you do not rely on the meth for basic fueling needs
Most meth injection kits use a very crude progressive based set up where the pump is driven on varying duty cycles and overall spray flow is set by a nozzel size. This form of mechanical injection is very crude and outdated compared to modern efi.
It is better IMHO to have properly sized injectors for your application and use alchy as a tuning adie and supliment and not a source of fuel to make up for too small injectors.
Al
Aug 22, 2007, 11:52 AM
#34
My concept is to use the EFI system of the car to supplyh the needed fuel and have the meth kit suppliment enough alcohol to aide in tuning
As the stock ecu / EFI system is vastly more refined and complex than a crude progressive based alchy system the car will run smoother and adapt to environmental changes better when you do not rely on the meth for basic fueling needs
Most meth injection kits use a very crude progressive based set up where the pump is driven on varying duty cycles and overall spray flow is set by a nozzel size. This form of mechanical injection is very crude and outdated compared to modern efi.
It is better IMHO to have properly sized injectors for your application and use alchy as a tuning adie and supliment and not a source of fuel to make up for too small injectors.
Al
As the stock ecu / EFI system is vastly more refined and complex than a crude progressive based alchy system the car will run smoother and adapt to environmental changes better when you do not rely on the meth for basic fueling needs
Most meth injection kits use a very crude progressive based set up where the pump is driven on varying duty cycles and overall spray flow is set by a nozzel size. This form of mechanical injection is very crude and outdated compared to modern efi.
It is better IMHO to have properly sized injectors for your application and use alchy as a tuning adie and supliment and not a source of fuel to make up for too small injectors.
Al
John Shepard is one of the only ones I know of that uses an actual electronic injector to fuel the methanol as he runs 100% methanol through injectors and no gasoline. There is no system available that runs on a fuel pump and electronic injector in the performance meth injection marketplace.
Meth injection should not be an aide. Meth injection should be a system calculated to provide adequate fueling to support the boost levels and octane fuel it is being used for.
If you are looking for a pump gas tune with a sprinkle of AIT cooling, water injection alone would be more beneficial for 24-26psi.
Meth injection is wasting your time and money for that application.
Aug 22, 2007, 12:03 PM
#35
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My concept is to use the EFI system of the car to supplyh the needed fuel and have the meth kit suppliment enough alcohol to aide in tuning
As the stock ecu / EFI system is vastly more refined and complex than a crude progressive based alchy system the car will run smoother and adapt to environmental changes better when you do not rely on the meth for basic fueling needs
Most meth injection kits use a very crude progressive based set up where the pump is driven on varying duty cycles and overall spray flow is set by a nozzel size. This form of mechanical injection is very crude and outdated compared to modern efi.
It is better IMHO to have properly sized injectors for your application and use alchy as a tuning adie and supliment and not a source of fuel to make up for too small injectors.
Al
As the stock ecu / EFI system is vastly more refined and complex than a crude progressive based alchy system the car will run smoother and adapt to environmental changes better when you do not rely on the meth for basic fueling needs
Most meth injection kits use a very crude progressive based set up where the pump is driven on varying duty cycles and overall spray flow is set by a nozzel size. This form of mechanical injection is very crude and outdated compared to modern efi.
It is better IMHO to have properly sized injectors for your application and use alchy as a tuning adie and supliment and not a source of fuel to make up for too small injectors.
Al
Aug 22, 2007, 01:27 PM
#36
I can hear both sides to this debate. But (i think) when it comes down to it the consumer (me and others like me) wants to feel safe about the tune they are getting. I think using Alky to aid in the tunning looks a little safer to me and i would want to use it that way. With so many threads about nozzles getting clogged or people not noticing that they ran out of meth too soon due to evaporation i couldn't see the risk justified by going for big horse with meth being the primary contributer to the numbers. I am more on Als side to tell you the truth. I would love the numbers that more dependancy on Meth puts up but at what cost....sorry man i am a military man, i can't afford to take the chance of replacing and engine.
Aug 22, 2007, 01:37 PM
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I can hear both sides to this debate. But (i think) when it comes down to it the consumer (me and others like me) wants to feel safe about the tune they are getting. I think using Alky to aid in the tunning looks a little safer to me and i would want to use it that way. With so many threads about nozzles getting clogged or people not noticing that they ran out of meth too soon due to evaporation i couldn't see the risk justified by going for big horse with meth being the primary contributer to the numbers. I am more on Als side to tell you the truth. I would love the numbers that more dependancy on Meth puts up but at what cost....sorry man i am a military man, i can't afford to take the chance of replacing and engine.
Aug 22, 2007, 01:48 PM
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I ran 24psi on pump gas with the stock turbo and made great power for 67,000 miles. No reliability issues. I think people are a little too worried about reliability. There are high mileage EVOs that are just fine. I have 74,000 miles on mine and no signs of slowing down.
Aug 22, 2007, 01:52 PM
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Man, I like both Dynoflash and TTP, but these two have been at it about the methanol max psi thing for a while now! 
What's the correct answer? I'd like to hear from some other sources like AMS, Buschur, Turbotrix, etc... Both TTP and big Al never really had any failures due to Methanol TUNING, so I guess it's just a different style of tuning. One being slightly more conservative and the other being very aggressive. The main question I guess is what the customer wants to risk...
What's the correct answer? I'd like to hear from some other sources like AMS, Buschur, Turbotrix, etc... Both TTP and big Al never really had any failures due to Methanol TUNING, so I guess it's just a different style of tuning. One being slightly more conservative and the other being very aggressive. The main question I guess is what the customer wants to risk...
Aug 22, 2007, 01:55 PM
#42
^ You guys sound like a bunch of dyno queens. Chemical intercooling is a huge advantage for people that actually beat on their cars for more than 11 seconds at a shot. Try road racing a lightly modded EVO for 30 minutes straight on pump at 24psi and see what happens.
The correct answer is another question.... Do yo have big go-nads or not?
Personally I think meth/alchy provides a huge bang for buck. Race gas on demand without the associated cost of consumption when not at WOT.
The truth is 24psi should be enough for daily driving. You can always tune for 30psi and crank it up on the weekends when needed.
If you take care of your junk odds are you aren't going to have a problem.
The correct answer is another question.... Do yo have big go-nads or not?
Personally I think meth/alchy provides a huge bang for buck. Race gas on demand without the associated cost of consumption when not at WOT.
The truth is 24psi should be enough for daily driving. You can always tune for 30psi and crank it up on the weekends when needed.
If you take care of your junk odds are you aren't going to have a problem.
Last edited by EVIL_EV0; Aug 22, 2007 at 01:59 PM.
Aug 22, 2007, 01:57 PM
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Another thing I think people fail to realize is that at 24 psi on methanol, you can run an extremely more aggressive tune (timing, afr's) than you can with 24 psi on straight pump gas. So it is not a waste. Plenty more power is still being made at 24 psi on meth vs. pump. I guess the bottom line is how much farther you are willing to take the risk of going.
Aug 22, 2007, 02:06 PM
#44
How often do you really need more than 350whp? Seriously. Nine out of Ten evos I see pounding around town aren't even racing another car! I for one wouldn't want to live on a bleeding edge tune especially day in and day out.
I ran alchy on my 03 at 24psi. I used it for intercooling. 100% knock free 350whp daily. Didn't matter if it was racing my shadow on an on-ramp or **** pounding the car during a lapping day. There was never a time that I wished I had another 50whp. I live by the 80/20 rule. Get 80% of the fun for 20% of the cost/risk.
I guess if you have a kick **** injection system with many automatic checks and balances then you may feel safe. Quite honestly most people have a bare bones alchy kit with a low level light and a spray light. Most people have their eyes on the road and not on the pretty lights.
I ran alchy on my 03 at 24psi. I used it for intercooling. 100% knock free 350whp daily. Didn't matter if it was racing my shadow on an on-ramp or **** pounding the car during a lapping day. There was never a time that I wished I had another 50whp. I live by the 80/20 rule. Get 80% of the fun for 20% of the cost/risk.
I guess if you have a kick **** injection system with many automatic checks and balances then you may feel safe. Quite honestly most people have a bare bones alchy kit with a low level light and a spray light. Most people have their eyes on the road and not on the pretty lights.
Last edited by EVIL_EV0; Aug 22, 2007 at 02:12 PM.
Aug 22, 2007, 02:13 PM
#45
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Another thing I think people fail to realize is that at 24 psi on methanol, you can run an extremely more aggressive tune (timing, afr's) than you can with 24 psi on straight pump gas. So it is not a waste. Plenty more power is still being made at 24 psi on meth vs. pump. I guess the bottom line is how much farther you are willing to take the risk of going.
Yeah we all know you can run more timing, but once you do that, you are defeating the purpose of running less boost with methanol. Too much timing can blow up your motor just like too much boost can. All we are saying is that running methanol at 24psi - the only thing you can really do is advance the timing and the power you make from that will not come near what you can do with more boost and timing. We are saying its a waste. Youre better off doing other mods most likely.