457 TQ 430 WHP - Maxing out the stock injectors with 93 octane and alcky !
Aug 23, 2007, 12:31 PM
#91
I am reading this thread and dont want to be a part of pissing match. But progressive pump based alky kits suck compared to injector duty based/constant fuel pressure system. They really shouldn't even be in the same catagory. One is like 1990 technology and one is from 2010.
Aug 23, 2007, 02:47 PM
#92
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The only communication we had with you was your apologies for it breaking after the fact. The client did appreciate you sending another through your US contact.
You might consider sending over a BRITISH tap with your kits, as this is the United States of America where we use our National Pipe Taper.
Finger tight is not going to cut it, especially when your instructions call for the use of loctite in the installation procedure. It seems there is a concern for them staying in place as it is.
You might consider sending over a BRITISH tap with your kits, as this is the United States of America where we use our National Pipe Taper.
Finger tight is not going to cut it, especially when your instructions call for the use of loctite in the installation procedure. It seems there is a concern for them staying in place as it is.
TTP,
A PM came to me from your company before the install. You asked for our advice tp help with the install. One of the advice I gave you was about the jet adaptor - bery specific. I think I still have this email.
You obviously ignored it and broke the fitting. Subsequently I have to apologise to the customer on your behalf. I have also sent a replacement to him free of charge. As far as your part in this little incident, I have received nothing, not even an acknowlegement.
I think you ought to change your attitude towards other fellow vendors, just calm down, be a bit nicer.
BSP - NPT tap. There are no "British-ness" on picking the BSP thread - I am not a fan of tapered thread especially for non-engineers. A tapered thread expands the thread hole as one is tightening it. If the taped hole does not match the intended depth of the component, there is a chance of the component snapping or the threaded hole cracks (very likely on thin wall cast metals).
I hope you now will understand why we picked a parallel thread (BSP) instead of a tapered thread (NPT).
Aug 23, 2007, 03:00 PM
#93
We have tapped hundreds of EGTs and injector nozzles from about every injection company in the states. AQ is the only one that uses BSP. NPT is superior as it insures a snug fit every time. If it is too snug, you tap it deeper until it is just right.
BSP is more prone to loosening over time as it is not tapered which is why you require loctite to hold the bungs in place.
It was a sincere recommendation that a BSP tap be included in your AQ kits as Snow Performance includes one in theirs even though it is the common 1/8 NPT.
In the end the bung breaks because it is too thin and has nothing to do with the thread pitch.
BSP is more prone to loosening over time as it is not tapered which is why you require loctite to hold the bungs in place.
It was a sincere recommendation that a BSP tap be included in your AQ kits as Snow Performance includes one in theirs even though it is the common 1/8 NPT.
In the end the bung breaks because it is too thin and has nothing to do with the thread pitch.
Aug 23, 2007, 03:08 PM
#94
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The only communication we had with you was your apologies for it breaking after the fact. The client did appreciate you sending another through your US contact.
You might consider sending over a BRITISH tap with your kits, as this is the United States of America where we use our National Pipe Taper.
Finger tight is not going to cut it, especially when your instructions call for the use of loctite in the installation procedure. It seems there is a concern for them staying in place as it is.
You might consider sending over a BRITISH tap with your kits, as this is the United States of America where we use our National Pipe Taper.
Finger tight is not going to cut it, especially when your instructions call for the use of loctite in the installation procedure. It seems there is a concern for them staying in place as it is.
Aquamist is the sort of equipment you find in the field of motorsports such as professional rally teams and the like. Its reputation is very excelent in the world of professional tuners.
I find it rather bizarre that you would position yourself to attack the quality and design of a superior system.
The only advantage your unit has is a cheap price, and in the end you get what you pay for.
Al
Last edited by DynoFlash; Aug 23, 2007 at 03:14 PM.
Aug 23, 2007, 03:44 PM
#96
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We have tapped hundreds of EGTs and injector nozzles from about every injection company in the states. AQ is the only one that uses BSP. NPT is superior as it insures a snug fit every time. If it is too snug, you tap it deeper until it is just right.
BSP is more prone to loosening over time as it is not tapered which is why you require loctite to hold the bungs in place.
It was a sincere recommendation that a BSP tap be included in your AQ kits as Snow Performance includes one in theirs even though it is the common 1/8 NPT.
In the end the bung breaks because it is too thin and has nothing to do with the thread pitch.
BSP is more prone to loosening over time as it is not tapered which is why you require loctite to hold the bungs in place.
It was a sincere recommendation that a BSP tap be included in your AQ kits as Snow Performance includes one in theirs even though it is the common 1/8 NPT.
In the end the bung breaks because it is too thin and has nothing to do with the thread pitch.
If tapered thread is so superior, why head bolts, rod bolts use parallel thread?
For a non-engineering person, it is a good choice - parallel thread and loctite. In your case you have ignored our pm advice and not reading the installation guideline on the user manual.
Instead of apologising for your mistake to our customer and us, you chose to go on the offensive. My repect for you is slowly ebbed away.
Is time to stop this nonsense (me too).
Sorry AL for going so far off topic
Last edited by Richard L; Aug 23, 2007 at 03:59 PM.
Aug 23, 2007, 03:44 PM
#97
For reference we have had no problems installing Aquamist Kits here at my install facilty. Everything in an Aqumist kit is very top notch materials and of the very best quality available. The gentleman who handles the installs here is our lead tech with 20 years of master tech experience to him installing these kits is very easy after all as his normal responsibilities involve working on 06 and 07 M5's and doing very high end custom electrical work on those very complex cars.
Aquamist is the sort of equipment you find in the field of motorsports such as professional rally teams and the like. Its reputation is very excelent in the world of professional tuners.
I find it rather bizarre that you would position yourself to attack the quality and design of a superior system.
The only advantage your unit has is a cheap price, and in the end you get what you pay for.
Al
Aquamist is the sort of equipment you find in the field of motorsports such as professional rally teams and the like. Its reputation is very excelent in the world of professional tuners.
I find it rather bizarre that you would position yourself to attack the quality and design of a superior system.
The only advantage your unit has is a cheap price, and in the end you get what you pay for.
Al
1. No one has attacked the quality components contained within AQ systems.
2. The discussion was whether IDC was necessary over MAP.
3. No one asked you anything about the non-vendor facility you continue to plug against the forum rules much like your signature.
The discussion has veered offtopic from the last tangent of safeguards.
Our product is not being solicited in this thread, nor do we typically sell our systems without them being installed at our facility.
You get what you pay for? We got a world record 130mph trapspeed on factory turbocharger, 34 psi on the stock turbo run everyday on the street safely, 100% methanol safe while others tuners warn that meth injection systems are an "aide" and not to be used over 24-26psi.
That's what you get for your money. Results.
Last edited by TTP Engineering; Aug 23, 2007 at 03:54 PM.
Aug 23, 2007, 04:00 PM
#99
BSP with loctite may be inferior to the NPT in your account, but we think differently. Snug fit also means putting stressing diametrically, over tighten may cause fracture of either the component or the fixture - or both.
If tapered thread is so superior, by head bolt, rod bolts use parallel thread?
For a non-engineering person, it is a good choice - parallel thread and loctite. In your case you have ignored our pm advice and not reading the installation guideline on the user manual.
Instead of apologising for your mistake to our customer and us, you chose to go on the offensive. My repect for you is slowly ebbed away.
Is time to stop this nonsence (me too).
Sorry AL for going so far off topic
If tapered thread is so superior, by head bolt, rod bolts use parallel thread?
For a non-engineering person, it is a good choice - parallel thread and loctite. In your case you have ignored our pm advice and not reading the installation guideline on the user manual.
Instead of apologising for your mistake to our customer and us, you chose to go on the offensive. My repect for you is slowly ebbed away.
Is time to stop this nonsence (me too).
Sorry AL for going so far off topic
We were told that these bungs were commonly broken, yet AQ has not taken measures to strengthen them.
Aug 23, 2007, 04:02 PM
#100
I read all this crap. To me it sounds like TTP is backing what theyre saying up on their expierence which is where it really counts. I don't care which type of system is better but I do agree that meth shouldn't be used as a tuning aide. And every one of Al's posts sound like a 8th grader wrote it while looking up words in the dictionary. To listen to him plug Aquamist and Buschur, god, makes me throw up a little too.
Aug 23, 2007, 04:40 PM
#101
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I don't see how you can say that a system that mirrors what a cars injectors are doing isn't superior to a system that monitors boost, and dumps meth at a certain boost point causing rich and lean spots in different gears, speeds, boost onsets. I would think that the AQ system would be a tuners dream and less of a hassle to deal with.
Aug 23, 2007, 05:13 PM
#102
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You get what you pay for? We got a world record 130mph trapspeed on factory turbocharger, 34 psi on the stock turbo run everyday on the street safely, 100% methanol safe while others tuners warn that meth injection systems are an "aide" and not to be used over 24-26psi.
That's what you get for your money. Results.
That's what you get for your money. Results.
I trust that most Evoultion M members are inteligent and wise enough to not purchase parts based upon the results you claim to have achived on a drag strip.
Just becuase for example - David concured Gloiath with a sling shot does not mean in later years it may be more practical, efficent and expedient to use a shot gun, if you get my drift.
The level of boost a customer chooses to run his car at has nothing to do with which alcohol kit he / she slects. Boost level, timing, and a/f targets are all matters of individual preference and the tuner's judgement. The design and quality of the alcohol system effect the way the can runs and how pleasant and enjoyable the car is to run and how well the tuner can get the car to perform under varying conditions.
I am sure you could simply dump a graviety fed hose with a bucket into the intake and make a huge amount of power at extreme boost levels.
I suggest that it would be safer and more effective to run an Aquamist alchy / water injection kit at 35 psi of boost over pump gas than on your more primative progressive based kit.
Why ?
Reasons
1 - Aquamist has a prescise flow gauge to monitor the level of flow at all times
2 - Aquamist references the flow rate to injector duty cycle to 100% injector duty cylcle and is much more precise in how the alcohol is metered than kits without a high speed valve.
3 - Aquamist has on board fail safes and safegaurds built into the system (operated by extrenal solinoid)
4 - Aquamist has a on pump accumulator which allows the pump to operate at a constant psi level to achive a uniform and exact alcohol flow rate through the high speed valve.
Aug 23, 2007, 05:34 PM
#103
Exactly, so how would NPT be better in this application? There isn't enough material there for the threads to "bite" into.
I don't see how you can say that a system that mirrors what a cars injectors are doing isn't superior to a system that monitors boost, and dumps meth at a certain boost point causing rich and lean spots in different gears, speeds, boost onsets. I would think that the AQ system would be a tuners dream and less of a hassle to deal with.
I don't see how you can say that a system that mirrors what a cars injectors are doing isn't superior to a system that monitors boost, and dumps meth at a certain boost point causing rich and lean spots in different gears, speeds, boost onsets. I would think that the AQ system would be a tuners dream and less of a hassle to deal with.
I cannot respond to someone with no meth injection experience and begin to think that you would be receptive to first hand experience.
Aug 23, 2007, 06:00 PM
#104
[QUOTE]Our reasoning is very real, full of experience and logical.
I trust that most evom members are smart enough to not be bandwagoned into thinking small and have an open mind to learn from those with adequate experience.
David conquered Goliath I think I have translated from this mess. If David can conquer goliath 98 out of 100 times with a sling and a rock (not a slingshot) and did not have to use his funds to buy the shotgun in the first place, he would be content with his decision, if you get my drift.
It most certainly does. Go buy INJECTION KIT X- complete with m5 jet, brass hose barb connectors, a plastic solenoid and a shurflo pump with viton seals and see how far you get on 35psi.
I find your comment most ridiculous and unrealistic with a helping of dangerous on the side.
1. Flow level is unimportant. It serves as much use as an autometer narrowband blinkity gauge. Sufficient flow can easily be monitored via wideband AFR meter.
2. True, which is not contested. There is no more performance gain with this feature however.
3. The only failsafe is a flow sensor window and the system does NOT come with a boost cut solenoid. It must be purchased elsewhere and then wired into the kit. If the AFR goes lean and the car knocks (including during tuning) there is nothing keeping the motor from grenading if the AFRs jump into the 13-14's AFR.
I have a "primitive" log for you of an Evo IX with cosworth cams, AFI dual ball bearing GT35R, 6sp and Jurassic Era progressive MAP based meth injection system. The car does well over 550 to the wheels.
Since the forum loves proof sources to back up claims, I just so happen to have a log.
It seems to me the "primitive" meth injection system of 100% methanol is tuned quite perfectly. If someone cares to share reasons why it is not, please send your expert opinion to us via PM.
Originally Posted by Dynoflash
I trust that most Evoultion M members are inteligent and wise enough to not purchase parts based upon the results you claim to have achived on a drag strip.
Originally Posted by Dynoflash
Just becuase for example - David concured Gloiath with a sling shot does not mean in later years it may be more practical, efficent and expedient to use a shot gun, if you get my drift.
Originally Posted by Dynoflash
The level of boost a customer chooses to run his car at has nothing to do with which alcohol kit he / she slects.
Originally Posted by Dynoflash
I am sure you could simply dump a graviety fed hose with a bucket into the intake and make a huge amount of power at extreme boost levels.
Originally Posted by Dynoflash
I suggest that it would be safer and more effective to run an Aquamist alchy / water injection kit at 35 psi of boost over pump gas than on your more primative progressive based kit.
Why ?
Reasons
1 - Aquamist has a prescise flow gauge to monitor the level of flow at all times
2 - Aquamist references the flow rate to injector duty cycle to 100% injector duty cylcle and is much more precise in how the alcohol is metered than kits without a high speed valve.
3 - Aquamist has on board fail safes and safegaurds built into the system (operated by extrenal solinoid)
Why ?
Reasons
1 - Aquamist has a prescise flow gauge to monitor the level of flow at all times
2 - Aquamist references the flow rate to injector duty cycle to 100% injector duty cylcle and is much more precise in how the alcohol is metered than kits without a high speed valve.
3 - Aquamist has on board fail safes and safegaurds built into the system (operated by extrenal solinoid)
2. True, which is not contested. There is no more performance gain with this feature however.
3. The only failsafe is a flow sensor window and the system does NOT come with a boost cut solenoid. It must be purchased elsewhere and then wired into the kit. If the AFR goes lean and the car knocks (including during tuning) there is nothing keeping the motor from grenading if the AFRs jump into the 13-14's AFR.
Originally Posted by Dynoflash
I suggest that it would be safer and more effective to run an Aquamist alchy / water injection kit at 35 psi of boost over pump gas than on your more primative progressive based kit.
Since the forum loves proof sources to back up claims, I just so happen to have a log.
It seems to me the "primitive" meth injection system of 100% methanol is tuned quite perfectly. If someone cares to share reasons why it is not, please send your expert opinion to us via PM.
Aug 23, 2007, 06:24 PM
#105
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NPT is better when there is not much material to "bite" into because it will allow a progressive stronghold on the unit screwing into it.
I cannot respond to someone with no meth injection experience and begin to think that you would be receptive to first hand experience.
I cannot respond to someone with no meth injection experience and begin to think that you would be receptive to first hand experience.
unfortunately for me I do have meth injection experience, and was pwnd by an overly rich tune on my STI which caused bore wash, loss of compression, and in the end I had to get rid of the car. All of this was done using an SMC kit. Now I don't think it was the kits fault obvioulsy, but if something like the AQ would have been available at the time I don't think I would have had the same issues because of the way the system delivers the spray. That why when I look at the two systems on paper the AQ system seems superior for someone with little tuning experience and easier to work with when compared to the others.