twin scroll hype?
Oct 4, 2007, 06:44 PM
#61
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The thing I don't get... is Full-Race is selling a lot of these kits already.
Honestly, how hard would it be to offer someone a kit at discount, if they allowed some back to back testing. Full-Race single scroll GT35R versus twin? It seems to me this would cost Full-Race practically nothing. Just give the customer the kit that performed better at the end of the test at a bit of a discount.
Honestly, how hard would it be to offer someone a kit at discount, if they allowed some back to back testing. Full-Race single scroll GT35R versus twin? It seems to me this would cost Full-Race practically nothing. Just give the customer the kit that performed better at the end of the test at a bit of a discount.
discopotatoe03 is right on...... some turbos won't respond as well as others to TS. Some turbos will actually perform better in OS vs. TS depending on how you define "perform". The GT35R by most definitions is better suited to OS manifolds. But if you don't limit yourself to the GT35R, why not slap a "bigger" turbo with a TS manifold in place of your GT35R with OS, get better spool and better top end?
Limit yourself to a GT35R in the equation, and the TS benefit probably won't be worth it.
Oct 4, 2007, 06:49 PM
#62
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Another came from a 10 flat VW drag car owner. He switched to a t4 .70 open to a t4 .84 divided. He picked up 700 rpm spool with no loss in power. But heres the part you need to pay attention to. This car had an open header and one waste gate off the collector. NO TS MANIFOLD . The swap to the housing simply PROVES what I have been trying to tell everyone here. This car had a large increase in response from an A/R change. TS design had NOTHING to do with it.
done and done.
how many threads can you be wrong in? lol
Oct 4, 2007, 08:00 PM
#63
You just want to twist around what this test says. The higher efficiency of a TS setup comes from keeping the pulses from interfering with each other. The exhaust housing itself is just more restrictive. Not more efficient. Does welding a divider inside your exhaust pipe make it more efficient?
Oct 4, 2007, 08:04 PM
#64
well i have a 30r ts kit. and LOVE it.
my last logs showed 25psi at 3840 rpm's it held 25psi at 8100 rpm. useing a jdm map sensor and evoscan.
i went to the track but i suck at launching the car. 11.5 at 124 with a 1.89 60 foot.
i made 5 passes. three 11.5s one 11.6 and a missed gear so i shut it down. 19.1 or somthing. all 1.89 to 1.98 60s
car is down right now
so no more fun. hoping to have it back up for sunday for more track time.
my last logs showed 25psi at 3840 rpm's it held 25psi at 8100 rpm. useing a jdm map sensor and evoscan.
i went to the track but i suck at launching the car. 11.5 at 124 with a 1.89 60 foot.
i made 5 passes. three 11.5s one 11.6 and a missed gear so i shut it down. 19.1 or somthing. all 1.89 to 1.98 60s
car is down right now
so no more fun. hoping to have it back up for sunday for more track time.
Oct 4, 2007, 10:35 PM
#67
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Wow, lots of misinformation in this thread.
There's no reason a TS housing can't be used on any of the Garrett BB turbos. If you're looking at trims for some explanation as to why they're few and far between, you're just wasting your time.
TS housings, as explained before, do slightly reduce turbine flow for a given a/r because of the additional boundary layer imposed by the divider wall. We're talking a few percent.
Anyone that says that TS is 'hype' can automatically be disregarded as having anything worthwhile to contribute on the subject. It's that simple.
There's no reason a TS housing can't be used on any of the Garrett BB turbos. If you're looking at trims for some explanation as to why they're few and far between, you're just wasting your time.
TS housings, as explained before, do slightly reduce turbine flow for a given a/r because of the additional boundary layer imposed by the divider wall. We're talking a few percent.
Anyone that says that TS is 'hype' can automatically be disregarded as having anything worthwhile to contribute on the subject. It's that simple.
Oct 5, 2007, 03:07 AM
#68
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Hi Jay , the thing I'd really like to know is why some of the later BB GT turbines are going down on trim size ie GT4088R vs GT4088 78T vs 84T , GT3782R (HP) vs GT3782 . People keep telling me that BB T51R's with the T51 turbine seem to be a lot more responsive that the GT42R's with the GT42 UHP turbines , isn't the T51 turbine 76T and the GT42 84T ?
From what I can see all of the above are twin scroll turbochargers with the possible exception of the HKS spec T51R's .
Maybe I've got it all wrong but my idea with the TS housings and A/R vs single scroll housings was the volume of each side or volute the cylinders are exhausting into . If the volume is halved then for the exhause to flow into it wouldn't the pressure rise faster and eventually cause pumping losses reversion etc ? This is where I would have thought the greater volumes from the larger A/R TS housing would have payed off .
As a generalisation could it be that truck diesels with their lower EGT and I suppose lower expansion ratios need different turbine trims to suit their different engine speed and power ranges ?
Thanks in advance Jay , cheers A .
From what I can see all of the above are twin scroll turbochargers with the possible exception of the HKS spec T51R's .
Maybe I've got it all wrong but my idea with the TS housings and A/R vs single scroll housings was the volume of each side or volute the cylinders are exhausting into . If the volume is halved then for the exhause to flow into it wouldn't the pressure rise faster and eventually cause pumping losses reversion etc ? This is where I would have thought the greater volumes from the larger A/R TS housing would have payed off .
As a generalisation could it be that truck diesels with their lower EGT and I suppose lower expansion ratios need different turbine trims to suit their different engine speed and power ranges ?
Thanks in advance Jay , cheers A .
Oct 5, 2007, 03:27 PM
#71
SWEET! I see an aftermarket exhaust manifold in classic black and white 
Seriously though... this is the most civil, mature debate I've seen in a VERY long time. Please keep it this way guys. There are some very knowledgeable people involved here with varying opinions on personal experiences. I've personally yet to be swayed either way... because some people seem to be arguing two different views of the same fight. I believe both are right in there specific applications. When you've seen a mere spark plug change make a 100whp difference, it comes into perspective for you. Then again that's 4 more cylinders and a little over 4 times the displacement. However, I think the arguing parties understand what I'm talking about.
Wish some of the vendors could have discussions this civilly!
Seriously though... this is the most civil, mature debate I've seen in a VERY long time. Please keep it this way guys. There are some very knowledgeable people involved here with varying opinions on personal experiences. I've personally yet to be swayed either way... because some people seem to be arguing two different views of the same fight. I believe both are right in there specific applications. When you've seen a mere spark plug change make a 100whp difference, it comes into perspective for you. Then again that's 4 more cylinders and a little over 4 times the displacement. However, I think the arguing parties understand what I'm talking about.
Wish some of the vendors could have discussions this civilly!
Oct 5, 2007, 04:04 PM
#72
hey zeus how you been bud long time no chat.
as requested here are some pics.
for the record
i built my own dump tubes, intake, water/oil line's, licp
again the car has had some more changes and a few other goodies added in. but these pics are what you want to see. ''the turbo kit''
if you want a updated pic of my hole setup let me know. my engine bay is clean and looking good. funny how a few mods go's from this pic to what it is now.
as requested here are some pics.
for the record
i built my own dump tubes, intake, water/oil line's, licp
again the car has had some more changes and a few other goodies added in. but these pics are what you want to see. ''the turbo kit''
if you want a updated pic of my hole setup let me know. my engine bay is clean and looking good. funny how a few mods go's from this pic to what it is now.
Last edited by EvoDan2004; Oct 5, 2007 at 04:07 PM.
Oct 5, 2007, 04:40 PM
#74
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94AWDcoupe
I know Scott from freshalloy forums he a very tech head etc.. I allways have been folow his points and the results are always been like this guys stats etc It would nice if you ask him to chime inn over here I really like to read what he have to say about the Ts .
Im still debating of going ts or not.. more opinions with facts its what we need.
thanks.
I know Scott from freshalloy forums he a very tech head etc.. I allways have been folow his points and the results are always been like this guys stats etc It would nice if you ask him to chime inn over here I really like to read what he have to say about the Ts .
Im still debating of going ts or not.. more opinions with facts its what we need.
thanks.