Car runs bad after cams
Oct 29, 2007, 01:36 PM
#49
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Fuquay-Varina, NC
Posts: 1,194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
right now that i switched the cps's the car runs rich as hell and tries to cut off... just like it is untuned but everything is fine... but it still sputtersa like it is a timing issue... I dont have the car with me and i dont have the time to take itr apart right now...
I myself think it sounds and acts just like a timing issue... i wish thats all the hell is what it was b/c it would be easier to fix.... Im not saying we didnt mess up and we a pros by any means... but i have done freakin timing belts and balancers and all kinda **** to... evos.....hondas.....hyundais....even frekain daewoos... and im 100% sure the timing (LOOKS) dead on... the bottom cover was not removed when these were installed... they were held by zip ties and only one cam was removed from its gear at a time.
I myself think it sounds and acts just like a timing issue... i wish thats all the hell is what it was b/c it would be easier to fix.... Im not saying we didnt mess up and we a pros by any means... but i have done freakin timing belts and balancers and all kinda **** to... evos.....hondas.....hyundais....even frekain daewoos... and im 100% sure the timing (LOOKS) dead on... the bottom cover was not removed when these were installed... they were held by zip ties and only one cam was removed from its gear at a time.
Oct 29, 2007, 01:40 PM
#50
Evolved Member
iTrader: (37)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Spec-Ops Motorsports, Fayetteville, NC
Posts: 3,146
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
the idle is set to 950 right now... i have moved the idle to as low as 750 and as high as 1100..... it does not fix anything. The timing has been checked a gazillian times. The cam gears were zip tied to the timing belt with 3 zip ties on each gear and cranked down with gorilla strength. timing did not move during the installation, did move after the installation and was verified again and again..... its not timing as far as timing marks go. If the cams were machined incorrectly, then it could be a timing issue. As far as marks go, they are dead on. As far as the timing marks on the bottom go. I have read that they wont always be directly above the T when its at TDC but it will be close. In my car's case, it is directly on the T, and it runs like a champ.... in his cars case, it is directly on the T and it runs like ***. As far as boxes being different lengths go, the boxes mine came in were the exact same size, but they were blue. We will uninstall the cams carefully paying close attention to where everything is during the uninstall to see if by chance something was missed, but id be willing to bet the install was flawless.
Oct 29, 2007, 01:59 PM
#51
Evolved Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Fuquay-Varina, NC
Posts: 1,194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i am just honestly wanting to think that we did miss something... but i have put freakin motors and trannys and dashes and frames and all kinda **** in cars.. i have even done my clutch in my car BY MY SELF in 4 hours.. but if you know what you are doing it is hard to screw up a cam install.. I really wanna think we just missed something. Just because it is hard to believe we just happen to get a bad set of cams... unless one of the dowels on the cam wasnt seated right and bent or something..
Oct 29, 2007, 07:11 PM
#52
Newbie
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yes I am HOLDING IT.
end up getting from some vendor. I did talked to them and ordered the intake
I will hold on the white box that had a part #pr103 and investigate if one of the cam is fake.....also I will be calling Cosworth.
MR EVO
Oct 29, 2007, 07:26 PM
#53
Evolved Member
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just wished I ordered it from you. That time I cannot find your Number
end up getting from some vendor. I did talked to them and ordered the intake
I will hold on the white box that had a part #pr103 and investigate if one of the cam is fake.....also I will be calling Cosworth.
MR EVO
end up getting from some vendor. I did talked to them and ordered the intake
I will hold on the white box that had a part #pr103 and investigate if one of the cam is fake.....also I will be calling Cosworth.
MR EVO
I also have a white box for the cossie cams! both boxes have the sticker with the cossie codes and clearly show which one is the intake cam and which is the exhaust cam. If i remember correctly when we installed the cams they had the Cosworth logo carved on them but i am not 100% sure on that!
.. Listen to TTPs advice, they have done many installs of these cams
Oct 29, 2007, 09:53 PM
#55
Evolving Member
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Midland, TX
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had a friend get a set of DSM cams once. I don't think he actually put them in though. I would, if you're positive on the timing and it sounds like you are, do a compression test like others have suggested. Mine bent a valve and it ran but sounded like the maf sensor was unplugged. That may be another thing to check if you haven't. But I doubt it would even make it up to cruising speed.
If worse comes to worse, you can actually degree cams like the big boys. You need a dial indicator and alot of time. But that'd be the only way to make sure the valves are opening exactly when you want them to.
If worse comes to worse, you can actually degree cams like the big boys. You need a dial indicator and alot of time. But that'd be the only way to make sure the valves are opening exactly when you want them to.
Oct 29, 2007, 10:16 PM
#57
It's a more rare occurance, but we did discuss the notion of a bent valvestem with Jason. A valve that does not open correctly on the intake side will cause a rich condition as described.
Out of a near 200 sets of cams we have installed in the Evo platform alone it has happened one time to us where a rocker did not seat correctly and bent a stem preventing it from opening. We replaced the valve and related hardware and he issue was solved.
Oct 30, 2007, 07:11 AM
#60
Evolved Member
iTrader: (37)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Spec-Ops Motorsports, Fayetteville, NC
Posts: 3,146
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
I appreciate everyone jumping in here with advice, especially the vendor who sold him the cams (TTP).... with my experience with Scott, he has always been a great guy to deal with and has been really quick to answer my questions and give helpful advice.
With that being said, it seems to me like all that is left for us to do is swap the cams out and see if the car runs better. If it does it has to be cams... if it doesnt then id say the valve is the culprit as i know timing is dead on and we have went back and swapped the sensor positions with no luck on a fix.
Let me ask you guys this.... mainly directed at Scott, if it is a bent valve... would the car run well over 4000 rpm ? Seriously, the car from 2500 to 4000 is terrible, everytime when 4k hits, the car wakes up and runs perfectly fine.... Thats why i immediately thought it was a timing issue and that is what forced us to check it for the 3rd and 4th time as well as swap plugs and clean the intake filter and anything and everything else. If there are no bent valves, which i dont know how to check for that aside from swapping the cams to see if it goes away, id think timing, but since timing is on by the marks, id have to say that the grind has to be off ever so slightly to make the timing off.
With that being said, it seems to me like all that is left for us to do is swap the cams out and see if the car runs better. If it does it has to be cams... if it doesnt then id say the valve is the culprit as i know timing is dead on and we have went back and swapped the sensor positions with no luck on a fix.
Let me ask you guys this.... mainly directed at Scott, if it is a bent valve... would the car run well over 4000 rpm ? Seriously, the car from 2500 to 4000 is terrible, everytime when 4k hits, the car wakes up and runs perfectly fine.... Thats why i immediately thought it was a timing issue and that is what forced us to check it for the 3rd and 4th time as well as swap plugs and clean the intake filter and anything and everything else. If there are no bent valves, which i dont know how to check for that aside from swapping the cams to see if it goes away, id think timing, but since timing is on by the marks, id have to say that the grind has to be off ever so slightly to make the timing off.