FMIC - If you don't need the xtra cooling
Dec 7, 2007, 05:30 PM
#16
www.xs-power.com
$130 shipped for the ic and will add about 25whp to ur setup allowing you for a more aggressive tune...
$130 shipped for the ic and will add about 25whp to ur setup allowing you for a more aggressive tune...
As for my tune. I could add timing or spike the turbo higher but the gains just aren't there. It would be more aggressive but not provide any returns. I don't think there is much left in the tune.
I'm more curious to hear if an aftermarket FMIC flows better than the stocker. I would hope all of them would cool better but I'm more concerned with flow. Is the FMIC a bottle neck?
Dec 7, 2007, 05:31 PM
#17
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i wouldnt replace the ic until around 400hp. they will add a lil weight depending upon who you go with. i recommend buschur or ams. im running the turbo xs at the moment but its about to go. boost drop doesnt occur til around 35 psi and its only around about 1psi of loss. they also add a little lag but not much but thats already been answered properly above. good luck and let us know if you have anymore questions.
Dec 7, 2007, 06:33 PM
#18
If you FMIC is sized appropriately for your setup and is designed decently, it can improve spool despite the size and also improve power. I saw noticeable gains in a same day back to back test with everything else kept constant:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=284633
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=284633
Dec 7, 2007, 07:17 PM
#19
1. yes they do add some weight depending on the intercooler. AMS has a decent IC with minimal weight addition
2. yes. they will add "some" lag because you will have to fill the intercooler to reach the same PSI as previous. easy fix is to up the boost slightly. typically only 1-2 psi at same mod levels.
3. never heard of a "boost drop" because of an intercooler. unless your running some STUPID psi like 50psi or something. maybe what your refering too is the "boost drop" across the intercooler. meaning that the boost drop is from the cooling fins internally at a given PSI. i dont even think you would notice a 1 psi drop. if you do, up the boost by 1 psi.
4. true. most people dont. however, some people have cams, exhaust, etc...they may also live in some hot *** places to help with the cooling.
in your case, its negligable. you have meth to cool your intake charge. you trust it. i dont think i could. id be awaiting a failure and my engine bay to throw up parts...blegh..
2. yes. they will add "some" lag because you will have to fill the intercooler to reach the same PSI as previous. easy fix is to up the boost slightly. typically only 1-2 psi at same mod levels.
3. never heard of a "boost drop" because of an intercooler. unless your running some STUPID psi like 50psi or something. maybe what your refering too is the "boost drop" across the intercooler. meaning that the boost drop is from the cooling fins internally at a given PSI. i dont even think you would notice a 1 psi drop. if you do, up the boost by 1 psi.
4. true. most people dont. however, some people have cams, exhaust, etc...they may also live in some hot *** places to help with the cooling.
in your case, its negligable. you have meth to cool your intake charge. you trust it. i dont think i could. id be awaiting a failure and my engine bay to throw up parts...blegh..
+1
Dec 7, 2007, 09:53 PM
#21
I'm not sure if I can bite off on this. 25WHP is a big number. Those gains would have to come from better flow because after a beat run in my car the intake manifold is ice cold. Chemical intercooling can pretty much eliminate the need for a FMIC. I'm confident my intake temps are as cool as they need to be.
As for my tune. I could add timing or spike the turbo higher but the gains just aren't there. It would be more aggressive but not provide any returns. I don't think there is much left in the tune.
I'm more curious to hear if an aftermarket FMIC flows better than the stocker. I would hope all of them would cool better but I'm more concerned with flow. Is the FMIC a bottle neck?
As for my tune. I could add timing or spike the turbo higher but the gains just aren't there. It would be more aggressive but not provide any returns. I don't think there is much left in the tune.
I'm more curious to hear if an aftermarket FMIC flows better than the stocker. I would hope all of them would cool better but I'm more concerned with flow. Is the FMIC a bottle neck?
25whp is doable with higher boost and more aggresive tune....
Realistically lets say on a typical bolt on car gains are around 15whp on low boost...
ic all make about the same power within 1-2whp... Is it really worth playing 4x more for 1-2whp?
If i was into road racing i would go with a ets 4" or buschur race..... I tested the larger ebay ic and that was garbage....
Cheers!
Dec 7, 2007, 10:01 PM
#22
Why? With road racing you have a lot of airflow over the core and you don't need or want a 27 lb. heat sink hanging off the end of the car. Even AMS doesn't use their thick race FMIC on their 35R no-alky time attack car. Also, a 4" core, particularly bar/plate, is really going to hamper airflow to the radiator, which is heavily taxed in road racing.
Dec 8, 2007, 12:40 PM
#25
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well a little off topic but oh well. I can't vouch for the FMIC cuz I installed mine along with other boltons so I couldn't say it made a difference. As for the intake I noticed you had just a drop-in. If you plan on keeping your stock turbo for awhile I would suggest getting the HKS RS Intake. When Sean Ivey tuned my car he suggested I buy this intake because of the power gains he noticed with it and at first I was sceptical but in the end I couldn't be happier. It made 20+whp difference. Of course I got retuned for it but well worth it. If you're interested you might be better off buying a used one for a whole lot cheaper than new. just my two cents.
Last edited by Import Junky; Dec 8, 2007 at 12:42 PM.
Dec 8, 2007, 12:42 PM
#26
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^^^I actually had one of these on my car. Once I swapped back to stock, peak boost and torque was about 200 rpm sooner and I was making more power at the same boost levels.
Another friend is running the Buschur race intercooler. He hasn't had it on a real dyno, but from his "butt" dyno he said the extra lag is easily noticeable and he feels it doesn't pull any harder than with the stocker. He is actually going to test it on his car. It's a cammed IX on pump 91. We'll see what the numbers say once he has it strapped to a dyno.
Another friend is running the Buschur race intercooler. He hasn't had it on a real dyno, but from his "butt" dyno he said the extra lag is easily noticeable and he feels it doesn't pull any harder than with the stocker. He is actually going to test it on his car. It's a cammed IX on pump 91. We'll see what the numbers say once he has it strapped to a dyno.
uhhhhh we need more info? less butt dyno numbers and more real dyno numbers, you say there was 200 rpm difference and more power, how much more power at what rpm what mods do you have... come on dude, thats liek saying my evo is fast with a turbo... wtf does that even mean
it would make sense if you spooled earlier with the smaller stock ic, but the larger ebay core should allow for better top end, dont know how much better or for how long, but it should...
Dec 8, 2007, 07:19 PM
#28
Wow.
First bottom line is, YES you absolutely will gain hp with the stock turbo by switching to a BETTER FMIC. Anyone who says you will not should not be in the business of selling parts/giving advise. End of story. You will ABSOLUTELY gain power.
My suggestion is get the largest/best FMIC right from the start. There is NO down side to going that route.
I wasn't aware AMS doesn't use their race core on their Time Attack car, I find that very puzzling.
We did/do use our Race FMIC on our Time Attack car. We've had ZERO problems with any overheating from it and if you looked at the logs you'd be amazed at how well it controls heat. When we'd go to Time Attack events we'd run all (3) 20 minute sessions each day for testing and such.
As for the Ebay intercooler that was pointed out. No way will it gain 25 whp just bolting it on the car. The cooling properties of the Ebay intercoolers suck....I've tested them, have provided the information on them and they do not cool well. The guys who buy them anyway will argue about it but the facts are the facts.
There is an intercooler thread on our site in the forums now with a bunch of misc. information on FMIC's if you want to go over there and check it out.
First bottom line is, YES you absolutely will gain hp with the stock turbo by switching to a BETTER FMIC. Anyone who says you will not should not be in the business of selling parts/giving advise. End of story. You will ABSOLUTELY gain power.
My suggestion is get the largest/best FMIC right from the start. There is NO down side to going that route.
I wasn't aware AMS doesn't use their race core on their Time Attack car, I find that very puzzling.
We did/do use our Race FMIC on our Time Attack car. We've had ZERO problems with any overheating from it and if you looked at the logs you'd be amazed at how well it controls heat. When we'd go to Time Attack events we'd run all (3) 20 minute sessions each day for testing and such.
As for the Ebay intercooler that was pointed out. No way will it gain 25 whp just bolting it on the car. The cooling properties of the Ebay intercoolers suck....I've tested them, have provided the information on them and they do not cool well. The guys who buy them anyway will argue about it but the facts are the facts.
There is an intercooler thread on our site in the forums now with a bunch of misc. information on FMIC's if you want to go over there and check it out.
Dec 9, 2007, 05:55 AM
#29
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Dec 9, 2007, 07:05 AM
#30
To me, putting your 4" 27 lb. Race FMIC on a stock turbo pump gas car makes about as much sense as putting a 3.5" TBE on the same car.
In fact, it makes even less sense because the weight is located in the worst possible location (i.e., on the nose of an already front-heavy car), and the weight difference between a typical aftermarket intercooler (like your Deluxe or the AMS standard core) (~20 lbs.) and your Race FMIC (~27 lbs.) is an even greater weight penalty than the difference between your 3" TBE (30.8 lbs) and the 3.5" ETS TBE (35.0 lbs.).