FMIC - If you don't need the xtra cooling
Dec 9, 2007, 11:33 AM
#31
evo8ltw, it is not the same. The 3" exhaust will flow enough and evacuate the exhaust gases perfectly up to let's say 600 whp on our dyno. It's not that I don't recommend a 3.5" exhaust, if a car actually needs one then I recommend it. We built 15 systems to date, all of them were on 37r or larger turbo cars. My RS just ran 9.6 at 151 with our 3" exhaust on it......
The race FMIC on the other hand will keep the AIT's extremely low which will allow for substantially more HP to be made, it also has less pressure drop than the smaller cores. There is no down side to low AIT's. With a smaller turbo running high boost the outlet air temps are even higher than a larger turbo which means you need an even larger intercooler to keep the AIT's down. Therefore I suggest using the Race FMIC on every EVO.
So as you can see there are specific reasons why I suggest one and not the other.
The extra weight of the FMIC is easily outweighed by the additional performance gained from it's low pressure drop and extremely efficient cooling.
If you are worried about the weight on the nose, put in a lightweight battery and throw the front crash beam in the garbage, that's 34 pounds of weight savings.
The race FMIC on the other hand will keep the AIT's extremely low which will allow for substantially more HP to be made, it also has less pressure drop than the smaller cores. There is no down side to low AIT's. With a smaller turbo running high boost the outlet air temps are even higher than a larger turbo which means you need an even larger intercooler to keep the AIT's down. Therefore I suggest using the Race FMIC on every EVO.
So as you can see there are specific reasons why I suggest one and not the other.
The extra weight of the FMIC is easily outweighed by the additional performance gained from it's low pressure drop and extremely efficient cooling.
If you are worried about the weight on the nose, put in a lightweight battery and throw the front crash beam in the garbage, that's 34 pounds of weight savings.
Dec 9, 2007, 12:06 PM
#32
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xs-power is garbage chinese copy crap that named their products after xs engineering so that they could use their premise to sell products. a larger ic will increase pressure drop (due to larger internal volume,) but not so much you'll notice.
Dec 10, 2007, 03:45 AM
#34
evo8ltw, it is not the same. The 3" exhaust will flow enough and evacuate the exhaust gases perfectly up to let's say 600 whp on our dyno. It's not that I don't recommend a 3.5" exhaust, if a car actually needs one then I recommend it. We built 15 systems to date, all of them were on 37r or larger turbo cars. My RS just ran 9.6 at 151 with our 3" exhaust on it......
The race FMIC on the other hand will keep the AIT's extremely low which will allow for substantially more HP to be made, it also has less pressure drop than the smaller cores. There is no down side to low AIT's. With a smaller turbo running high boost the outlet air temps are even higher than a larger turbo which means you need an even larger intercooler to keep the AIT's down. Therefore I suggest using the Race FMIC on every EVO.
So as you can see there are specific reasons why I suggest one and not the other.
The extra weight of the FMIC is easily outweighed by the additional performance gained from it's low pressure drop and extremely efficient cooling.
If you are worried about the weight on the nose, put in a lightweight battery and throw the front crash beam in the garbage, that's 34 pounds of weight savings.
The race FMIC on the other hand will keep the AIT's extremely low which will allow for substantially more HP to be made, it also has less pressure drop than the smaller cores. There is no down side to low AIT's. With a smaller turbo running high boost the outlet air temps are even higher than a larger turbo which means you need an even larger intercooler to keep the AIT's down. Therefore I suggest using the Race FMIC on every EVO.
So as you can see there are specific reasons why I suggest one and not the other.
The extra weight of the FMIC is easily outweighed by the additional performance gained from it's low pressure drop and extremely efficient cooling.
If you are worried about the weight on the nose, put in a lightweight battery and throw the front crash beam in the garbage, that's 34 pounds of weight savings.
I can believe that the larger FMIC keeps AITs down, but I question how much the extra little bit that you can get from the larger FMIC (through more aggressive tuning) really offsets the handling penalty. Just a little better stick in the corners tends to pay off better than a little more speed down the straight on a road course. For a typical street/strip car, I absolutely agree with going with the biggest FMIC, but I question it for a time attack car still.
Dec 10, 2007, 04:27 AM
#35
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This is a great beneficial discussion... It has peaked my interest in the topics at hand. The best part is everyone maintaining a professional attitude and actually SHARING information...
This is wonderful!
Cheers-
Erich
This is wonderful!
Cheers-
Erich
Dec 10, 2007, 05:20 AM
#36
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im sorry but REV-MOTO, u really have something to learn about these cars and car in general.
the EBAY is the biggest waste of time and money.
remember this for a point of referance.
Fast and Cheap = Not Reliable
Cheap and Reliable = Not Fast
Reliable and Fast = Not Cheap
so do yourself a favor and get a good core.
the EBAY is the biggest waste of time and money.
remember this for a point of referance.
Fast and Cheap = Not Reliable
Cheap and Reliable = Not Fast
Reliable and Fast = Not Cheap
so do yourself a favor and get a good core.
Dec 10, 2007, 05:35 AM
#37
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Dec 10, 2007, 08:59 AM
#39
Yes, I have tested exhausts but not 3" to 3.5". Even better, 3" to NOTHING at all and on the 400'ish whp EVO's we tested it on there was no gain from the catless 3" exhaust with the bullet or our old race muffler to an open exhaust.....I don't just type things and say things to hear myself, I do it after I've done some testing and have some proof
The "standard" 3.5" thick cores that mostly everyone offers at high boost can gain anywhere from 30-45 degrees in intake air temp on a single gear pull. Typically the race FMIC will gain under 10 degrees. That difference in intake temp makes pretty substantial difference in the timing and air fuel ratios you can run.
At the shootout this year Dave L. was here. Very well put together EVO Green car. I tuned and tune and tuned, I could not get the car to 400 whp. I told him if he just swapped out the FMIC he'd get over 400 whp (which was his goal). He bought it, installed it out in our parking lot and ended up going from the 390'ish he was at to 415 whp.
The "standard" 3.5" thick cores that mostly everyone offers at high boost can gain anywhere from 30-45 degrees in intake air temp on a single gear pull. Typically the race FMIC will gain under 10 degrees. That difference in intake temp makes pretty substantial difference in the timing and air fuel ratios you can run.
At the shootout this year Dave L. was here. Very well put together EVO Green car. I tuned and tune and tuned, I could not get the car to 400 whp. I told him if he just swapped out the FMIC he'd get over 400 whp (which was his goal). He bought it, installed it out in our parking lot and ended up going from the 390'ish he was at to 415 whp.
Dec 10, 2007, 09:23 AM
#41
To make that statment i can say...
the ATP KIT is a waste of time and money.......
ebay fmic works well... Everyone ive reccomended it to has been hesitant, but once its on the car and tuned no one has swapped it out, and they have ran faster times and felt a difference.
Its all preference and youre scaring people away from it that dont know better, until recently i wouldnt have been able to afford a $700-$800 ic. I bought the ebay ont he notion that ona 650whp car thats producing much power power than the ebay ic is rated for it only lost around 10-12whp... Not bad at all for only $130
I dont road race, 99% of people on here dont either, for road racing the ebay probably cant keep up, but on the street and ont he strip it does its job very very well and is garenteed power.
It only takes .1 hp more for a vendor to say theres makes more power than another. And you all know that a ic cant really be tested on a dyno, it needs air to make a real difference, a larger one wont get as hot as quick as a smaller one since theres more area surface.
In the end how much are you willng to pay for each whp... It cost be $5.20 per whp...
Assuming a larger ic for $700 does make me an more power, lets say 1 more whp thats $26.92 per horse power
Dec 10, 2007, 09:42 AM
#42
It's great the results you're getting with meth! It is a very nice supplement to pump fuel for added fun 
While impressive, we still feel that you'd see additional gains from upgrading your intercooler.
Our customers regularly report the ability to increase boost by 2-3 psi and add up to 6 degrees more timing from their previous knock threshold on the stock intercooler when running pump gas (91-93 octane). We've also had customers in hot climates insist that their EVO feels like a completely new vehicle after installing our intercooler
Consistent and lower AITs translate to higher boost/timing without knock, thus the bigger power numbers. Repeatable performance is another benefit. With better heatsoak resistance, the car will pull just as hard time after time as it did on the first rip. That's a huge plus for any kind of track use or even "spirited" street driving It's of course up to you to upgrade or not, but we honestly feel it worthwhile in every regard. Good luck!
Tom
While impressive, we still feel that you'd see additional gains from upgrading your intercooler. Our customers regularly report the ability to increase boost by 2-3 psi and add up to 6 degrees more timing from their previous knock threshold on the stock intercooler when running pump gas (91-93 octane). We've also had customers in hot climates insist that their EVO feels like a completely new vehicle after installing our intercooler
Consistent and lower AITs translate to higher boost/timing without knock, thus the bigger power numbers. Repeatable performance is another benefit. With better heatsoak resistance, the car will pull just as hard time after time as it did on the first rip. That's a huge plus for any kind of track use or even "spirited" street driving It's of course up to you to upgrade or not, but we honestly feel it worthwhile in every regard. Good luck!Tom
Dec 10, 2007, 10:03 AM
#43
im sorry but REV-MOTO, u really have something to learn about these cars and car in general.
the EBAY is the biggest waste of time and money.
remember this for a point of referance.
Fast and Cheap = Not Reliable
Cheap and Reliable = Not Fast
Reliable and Fast = Not Cheap
so do yourself a favor and get a good core.
the EBAY is the biggest waste of time and money.
remember this for a point of referance.
Fast and Cheap = Not Reliable
Cheap and Reliable = Not Fast
Reliable and Fast = Not Cheap
so do yourself a favor and get a good core.
So which one is the ATP kit falling under?
Scorke
Dec 10, 2007, 10:05 AM
#44
Yeah but if your calculating power during all times of driving, this means, on the road course, in 110 degree heat, after multiple high speed pulls, then YOU ARE NOT GETTING THAT WHP with an eBay FMIC.
Your IC works, but not in all conditions.
I didnt buy 10k worth of parts for a 30k dollar car to make it fast for only a portion of the time I am driving it, I did that because I want it everyday every minute.
Scorke
Dec 10, 2007, 11:24 AM
#45
Yeah but if your calculating power during all times of driving, this means, on the road course, in 110 degree heat, after multiple high speed pulls, then YOU ARE NOT GETTING THAT WHP with an eBay FMIC.
Your IC works, but not in all conditions.
I didnt buy 10k worth of parts for a 30k dollar car to make it fast for only a portion of the time I am driving it, I did that because I want it everyday every minute.
Scorke
Your IC works, but not in all conditions.
I didnt buy 10k worth of parts for a 30k dollar car to make it fast for only a portion of the time I am driving it, I did that because I want it everyday every minute.
Scorke
Just my .02 on this.