FULL RACE TWIN SCROLL 30R results and data
Dec 15, 2007, 06:43 AM
#136
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This 3076 makes torque like a Green. It makes 300 #ft at about the same rpm as a Green. Also, Dan went 11.2 in his car, so no doubt a 3076 could easily go 10s.
Dec 15, 2007, 08:31 AM
#137
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WOW, thanks to both Dan and Geoff for all the effort! This is exactly what people have been begging for. Hopefully this shows people how great a TS setup can be.
Dec 15, 2007, 12:28 PM
#139
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I've seen Ted B. make the comment several times that one of the big perks of TS is the non-WOT response and how that is hard to quantify via a dyno graph or even drag strip times. At first this sounds a bit like BS, but I am a believer based on my first hand experiences. I built a custom turbo kit for my IX based around an SC50R on a cast manifold (both pieces being non TS). When I compare that to a friend's otherwise identical car and we both do a full-throttle punch starting at 1500, we both get 1.0 bar of boost at nearly an identical rpm. But after a few weeks of driving my car with the new setup, I started to pick up something that was missing: with the stock setup, I could be at 20% throttle and if I started to go up a hill I'd get 20psi of boost. It was like you couldn't keep the thing from spooling regardless of throttle position. With the new setup, you have to be much more deliberate to get boost. Definitely not WOT, but you have to be somewhat "on it" to get things moving.
So I guess my point is, in my case I have seen the benefits of TS by losing it. If someone went from a stock TS setup to an aftermarket TS setup, they might not notice that much of a change, but I think an A/B comparison of TS vs. non-TS (provided that the turbos are closely matched in terms of their WOT spool rpm) will show some real differences.
So I guess my point is, in my case I have seen the benefits of TS by losing it. If someone went from a stock TS setup to an aftermarket TS setup, they might not notice that much of a change, but I think an A/B comparison of TS vs. non-TS (provided that the turbos are closely matched in terms of their WOT spool rpm) will show some real differences.
Dec 16, 2007, 07:20 AM
#140
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Evodan: thanks for posting the info. That is a very nice spooling 30r setup. Looks like a blast on the street. 
That's a lot of speculation and what ifs. If you do some digging, you will find the following answers:
1.) the winning auto/x car at nationals this year ran a Green turbo (markdaddio)
2.) the most successful road-race car ran a 2.3L/35r setup (ams)
3.) the most successful drag cars ran 42r or larger setups
You state that you want to run a built 2.0L. Unless you're building a drag racing car, I would urge you to think about going with a 2.3 instead. The best advice I can give you is to really think about what it is that you are modding your car for, and then do a ton of research to figure out which combination of parts will achieve that goal.
l8r)
..If a person's intention is to auto-x or just have a great daily driver and that person would be happy with WHP and torque numbers in the 400-500 range, then is there any advantage in spending the money on the Full Race setup? ...
... The best/most recent I can think of on the Green is 443 whp and 507 ft lbs on Buschur's Mustang dyno. No telling what that could have been on a Dynojet. Yes it was on import and meth with alot of tuning and testing, but I would think that 400+ would be possible without the import fuel. ...
...So the question still stands: Will a TS 3076 with the complete Full Race kit (manifold, VFMIC, piping, etc) outperform a similarly outfitted vehicle with an FP Green and stock ported manifold?
... The best/most recent I can think of on the Green is 443 whp and 507 ft lbs on Buschur's Mustang dyno. No telling what that could have been on a Dynojet. Yes it was on import and meth with alot of tuning and testing, but I would think that 400+ would be possible without the import fuel. ...
...So the question still stands: Will a TS 3076 with the complete Full Race kit (manifold, VFMIC, piping, etc) outperform a similarly outfitted vehicle with an FP Green and stock ported manifold?
1.) the winning auto/x car at nationals this year ran a Green turbo (markdaddio)
2.) the most successful road-race car ran a 2.3L/35r setup (ams)
3.) the most successful drag cars ran 42r or larger setups
You state that you want to run a built 2.0L. Unless you're building a drag racing car, I would urge you to think about going with a 2.3 instead. The best advice I can give you is to really think about what it is that you are modding your car for, and then do a ton of research to figure out which combination of parts will achieve that goal.
l8r)
Dec 16, 2007, 08:10 AM
#141
I've seen Ted B. make the comment several times that one of the big perks of TS is the non-WOT response and how that is hard to quantify via a dyno graph or even drag strip times. At first this sounds a bit like BS, but I am a believer based on my first hand experiences. I built a custom turbo kit for my IX based around an SC50R on a cast manifold (both pieces being non TS). When I compare that to a friend's otherwise identical car and we both do a full-throttle punch starting at 1500, we both get 1.0 bar of boost at nearly an identical rpm. But after a few weeks of driving my car with the new setup, I started to pick up something that was missing: with the stock setup, I could be at 20% throttle and if I started to go up a hill I'd get 20psi of boost. It was like you couldn't keep the thing from spooling regardless of throttle position. With the new setup, you have to be much more deliberate to get boost. Definitely not WOT, but you have to be somewhat "on it" to get things moving.
So I guess my point is, in my case I have seen the benefits of TS by losing it. If someone went from a stock TS setup to an aftermarket TS setup, they might not notice that much of a change, but I think an A/B comparison of TS vs. non-TS (provided that the turbos are closely matched in terms of their WOT spool rpm) will show some real differences.
So I guess my point is, in my case I have seen the benefits of TS by losing it. If someone went from a stock TS setup to an aftermarket TS setup, they might not notice that much of a change, but I think an A/B comparison of TS vs. non-TS (provided that the turbos are closely matched in terms of their WOT spool rpm) will show some real differences.
Dec 16, 2007, 08:32 AM
#142
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The BOV I'm running now is an HKS super sequential. It is normally closed unless there is a change of pressure in the negative direction. In other words, during part throttle load and spool it would be fully closed and therefore, as far as spool is concerned, it would be the best case scenario. A bypass-valve design, which would be partially open if there is any vaccum present, would hurt spool time since some air would be diverted away from the intake. I've never played around with the stock valve, but I'm guessing it is more along these lines.
Dec 16, 2007, 09:00 AM
#143
Evodan: thanks for posting the info. That is a very nice spooling 30r setup. Looks like a blast on the street.
That's a lot of speculation and what ifs. If you do some digging, you will find the following answers:
1.) the winning auto/x car at nationals this year ran a Green turbo (markdaddio)
2.) the most successful road-race car ran a 2.3L/35r setup (ams)
3.) the most successful drag cars ran 42r or larger setups
You state that you want to run a built 2.0L. Unless you're building a drag racing car, I would urge you to think about going with a 2.3 instead. The best advice I can give you is to really think about what it is that you are modding your car for, and then do a ton of research to figure out which combination of parts will achieve that goal.
l8r)
That's a lot of speculation and what ifs. If you do some digging, you will find the following answers:
1.) the winning auto/x car at nationals this year ran a Green turbo (markdaddio)
2.) the most successful road-race car ran a 2.3L/35r setup (ams)
3.) the most successful drag cars ran 42r or larger setups
You state that you want to run a built 2.0L. Unless you're building a drag racing car, I would urge you to think about going with a 2.3 instead. The best advice I can give you is to really think about what it is that you are modding your car for, and then do a ton of research to figure out which combination of parts will achieve that goal.
l8r)
When I think of road racing I think of wheel to wheel, most successfull time attack evo in the united states is more like it I'd bring up the HKS car for that number 2 catagory which is also running 2.3 and I believe a GT30 esque turbo.
Scorke
Dec 16, 2007, 10:51 AM
#144
How do you define road-race and successful? When I think of road racing I think of wheel to wheel, most successfull time attack evo in the united states is more like it
I'd bring up the HKS car for that number 2 catagory which is also running 2.3 and I believe a GT30 esque turbo.
Scorke
When I think of road racing I think of wheel to wheel, most successfull time attack evo in the united states is more like it I'd bring up the HKS car for that number 2 catagory which is also running 2.3 and I believe a GT30 esque turbo.
Scorke
cb
Dec 16, 2007, 12:33 PM
#146
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$1700 v. $6600, but the Full Race kit includes an intercooler, IC piping, BOV , down pipe which all should be upgraded with either turbo and of course a twin scroll manifold, turbo and waste gate. It is a substantial cost difference, but not any where near 7 times as much and it's also not really an apples to apples comparison.I think the answer to the Green v. 3076 question is very easy, but involves another question which isn't so easy. If you will be happy with 30 more whp than the stock turbo, then the Green will keep you happy. If you want more or may want more, you probably want something bigger and at that point it's just a matter of deciding which kit and turbo you want. As pointed out in another thread with the Green/ 3076 question, if you buy the kit, the only thing needed to upgrade if you go bigger is a turbo. It's both easy and cheap to upgrade with the kit.
Last edited by robertrinaustin; Dec 16, 2007 at 12:39 PM.
Dec 16, 2007, 12:54 PM
#148
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The guys that actually install and tune them claim 25-45 whp depending on mods and they posted a bunch of dyno sheets showing just that. I think this is what one should realistically expect. Can the turbo be pushed for more? Yes, but that could be said of any turbo from the stocker to a 35r. It's a very nice upgrade over stock, but it's limited. It's a 47# per minute wheel and nothing more, nothing less. There's no majic that makes it perform like a 35R and spool like a stocker.
Dec 16, 2007, 01:15 PM
#149
The guys that actually install and tune them claim 25-45 whp depending on mods and they posted a bunch of dyno sheets showing just that. I think this is what one should realistically expect. Can the turbo be pushed for more? Yes, but that could be said of any turbo from the stocker to a 35r. It's a very nice upgrade over stock, but it's limited. It's a 47# per minute wheel and nothing more, nothing less. There's no majic that makes it perform like a 35R and spool like a stocker.