EVO VIII Chris

Ok I am coming to a Evolution from 2 E36 M3's. One was a 95 and the other a 98. The 98 was dynoed and dynoed at about 215rwhp. Now I am hearing that the Evo is putting down about 200hp to the wheels and sometimes as low at 185? This doesn't make any sense to me I guess because the Evo is obviously faster than the M3. I know that for a fact after driving them both. the M3 is rated at 240hp at the crank stock and the Evo is rated at 271 hp to the crank stock. Is there more of a loss in hp with AWD than there is with just 2 wheel drive? I am assuming that must be the case because otherwise I can't make sens that the M3 is slower yet has more horsepower than the Evo.

Anyone care to explain this to me? How much of a drivetrain loss in hp is there on AWD?

Thanks
Chris

N10S

iTrader: (4)

The drivetrain loss in an AWD car is in the vicinity of 22-25%, as opposed to 10-12% for an RWD car.

There are certainly always variables between different cars of the same driveline configuration, but this will at least give you an idea regarding your e36 M3 comparison question.

I am also a previous 98 M3(sedan) owner :-)!

N10S

EVO VIII Chris

Seems like there is quite a few ex BMW owners here. I owned mine for 2 years but I just couldnt resist the EVO! So if my Evo is making somewhere between 185-200 at the wheels and the M3 is making 215 at the wheels wouldnt the M3 be faster? I mean I am not an idiot ricer who thinks more horsepower means the car is faster but I think the cars weigh about the same and I guess if the Evo has less wheel horsepower it would seem to me that it wouldn't be as quick.

IS2000

iTrader: (2)

185-200 is obviously the number you get with Dyno Dynamic that Vishnu uses. On a Dynojet, a stock EVO should put down 220-240 awhp. Also, the E36 M3 has underrated factory horsepower.

N10S

iTrader: (4)

I think the dyno dynamics dyno which indexes fairly low, has indicated readings for stock EVO's in the 180-200whp range.

Most other dynos seem to place the EVO at around 215-225whp. So the peak numbers are probably pretty close.A more important comparison would be an overlay of a stock EVO and an e36 M3 to see how the overall power curve looks.

I 0-60 g-tech test all of my cars(haven't done the EVO yet due to hot weather)and my M3 ranged from 5.4 to 5.8 seconds depending on my launch. My sharked 2000 Mcoupe with CAI would turn a 0-60 in 4.98-5.2, stock was about 5.1-5.2.

I believe my EVO's performance(particulary with the Works re-flash) is much closer to that of the MCoupe than the M3.We will see when the weather cools down a bit this fall;-)

N10S

Edit: IS2000, sorry for posting right over the top of you with similar info, we must have been typing at the same time!I do concur with your thoughts.

EVO VIII Chris

Why is it that different dynos produce such different numbers? You would think they would all have some sort of standard and aim towards that. I mean how would you ever know which dyno was closer to being right with the hp figures when the numbers are off quite a bit in comparrison to the two?

I4K20C

Well imo..if you use a dyno to tell ppl about how much power your puttin down than it matters!! but the more important thing for dyno's are how much of a gain you get with parts, to do testing, and too see your power curves!! you just have to stay consistant witht the type of dyno u use!!

Secret Chimp

iTrader: (2)

I don't think dyno's are really about accuracy. They are used more as a tuning aid....so you know your spent $$ is getting you hp. That being said, the HP numbers that come off the dyno's are VERY important to the customers. Everyone wants good "tavern" info to brag about. A low reading dyno won't get you that.

For the dyno numbers of your E36's to mean anything in relation to the Evo, you would have to run the Evo on the same exact dyno the E36 was run on.....and the atmospheric numbers would also have to be exactly the same.....and even then, you would have to deal with driveline loss % differences between the AWD and RWD set-ups.

So, Chris, I wouldn't be too worried if I were you about the hp numbers you are seeing. Those numbers are only worth as much as the paper they are printed on. It's the real numbers...lap times, 1/4 mile times that show a cars capabilities better.

SC~

mayhem

iTrader: (9)

Although it's widely accepted that it's the gains that matter, you do bring up a good overlooked question. Why do they yield such different results? I'm sure this will turn into a physics discussion if someone with dyno engineering backgroung comes forth, but it would be interesting.

Diesel

iTrader: (8)

those low numbers are from Vishnu's dyno... AFAIC dynojet is the only hp numbers i'll take...

QuantumEVO

iTrader: (12)

I might point out that powerband, weight and gearing all have roles to play in why something is faster. Regardless, it's torque that accelerates the car. A stock EVO could outrun something with twice the horsepower; it all depends on torque, not horsepower.

BTW, I'd put the AWD drivetrain loss estimate more around 20~22%. It isn't strictly a percentage anyway...


Mark
www.Quantum-Racing.com

mantosride

iTrader: (71)

Does any one know how much hp to the wheels on a 2006 mr and i very interested in knowing this.

yahu

iTrader: (55)

Manto - the 220whp - 240whp on a dynojet is what I've always heard for a stock VIII/IX. They are pretty much the same as far as crank hp/tq so I haven't questioned it. I never got a baseline so unfortunately I am only going off of what I have heard.

As far as dynos being different, it is based on technology. Dynojet readings are based on inertia while Mustangs are based on eddy current. Some prefer one over the other but as stated in this thread what is important to you the end user is staying consistent on the same dyno and as close to the same environmental variables as possible (altitude, temperature, humidity, etc.).

Even one dynojet (or mustang) to another won't be the same. You will always hear something to the effect of "but tuner x's dyno reads low" which is true.

GTijoejoe

iTrader: (25)

me too

Jp7

iTrader: (11)

Dyno readings are confusing, it sucks I know.

I dyno'ed 324/313 on AMS'es dynojet. When people ask I say "I have a 420HP evo". (23% loss)

I have no clue what my 0-60 is, but it would be slow because I don't launch my car hard, and i don't have the talent to launch it properly.

I prefer 60MPH & up runs.