Groden Aluminum Rods a must for serious power....Take 2!
Jan 9, 2008, 06:30 PM
#1
Groden Aluminum Rods a must for serious power....Take 2!
Alright guys ive chatted with the Mods and lets keep this thread clean
Lots of good info in here. We have allot of big builds coming out this year
Here are the pics of Pauls bearings from the 1014whp, 20 passes and 30+ dyno pulls.
This was the 1009 whp, 20 dyno pulls and 7 passes on the steel Oliver rods.
We just pulled our motor out today and held our breath as we pulled the caps off the rods and WOW the bearings are gorgeous. This is the 3rd time we have done this and each time our bearings have been awesome. We have had miss fires at 57psi to 22 deg of timing on the dyno for ***** out pulls. My radiator is even a liittle bowed from so much timing
(I pushed the timing button on the aem Lucas did not do that) I'm also shifting at 10k rpms. The rods are going to the machine shop in the morning and getting check out so i will get pics up real soon.
With 250 passes on steel rods we were checking and changing bearing every 30 passes from pushing the tune so hard. Not anymore.
Jake Montgomery who has a 1st gen dsm has raced every BOTI with passes in 155-159mph at 9.2 et has won 3 BOTI just now checked his bearings after a full season of racing. They were freaken perfect!. Rods were fine.
Lucas has another set of Groden Aluminums and is going to test them on his daily driver. Groden said you can go 70k miles without checking them so we will see
This is a quote from Jake Montgomery
I'm going to have to say that an aluminum rod is by far the best choice for any car making anything over 800whp. I ran Crower rods for years with no problems with the bearings, that was until started making some serious power (above 800whp)
Above 800whp I was pulling the pan off every 3 events and checking the bearings on the crowers, and as suspected I was not impressed, the bearings would come out looking like ***, but at 650whp the bearings were great with the steal rods.
I made the switch to aluminum rods, I use the R&R aluminum rods and have never looked back. I tossed the rods in with a new set of pistons, rings ect. Never even pulled the motor out of the car, just took the head off and did a quick freshin up job on the bottom end with new rings, the R&R rods, and new pistons (time wasn't on our side since we had a race coming up in a hurry).
Ran a full season on the motor without pulling it apart one time. Running low 9's at 159mph all season long on a 3000lb car (estimated 1000whp) and here is how the bearings looked after the whole season using the R&R aluminum rods ruffly 65-70 low 9sec full blown passes at over 40lbs of boost and 100shot to boot and 10,500rpm shifts.
Needless to say I was very happy to see these results. I plan on running the same rods that came out of the motor for this upcoming 2008 season.
__________________
Lots of good info in here. We have allot of big builds coming out this yearHere are the pics of Pauls bearings from the 1014whp, 20 passes and 30+ dyno pulls.
This was the 1009 whp, 20 dyno pulls and 7 passes on the steel Oliver rods.
We just pulled our motor out today and held our breath as we pulled the caps off the rods and WOW the bearings are gorgeous. This is the 3rd time we have done this and each time our bearings have been awesome. We have had miss fires at 57psi to 22 deg of timing on the dyno for ***** out pulls. My radiator is even a liittle bowed from so much timing
(I pushed the timing button on the aem Lucas did not do that) I'm also shifting at 10k rpms. The rods are going to the machine shop in the morning and getting check out so i will get pics up real soon.With 250 passes on steel rods we were checking and changing bearing every 30 passes from pushing the tune so hard. Not anymore.
Jake Montgomery who has a 1st gen dsm has raced every BOTI with passes in 155-159mph at 9.2 et has won 3 BOTI just now checked his bearings after a full season of racing. They were freaken perfect!. Rods were fine.
Lucas has another set of Groden Aluminums and is going to test them on his daily driver. Groden said you can go 70k miles without checking them so we will see
This is a quote from Jake Montgomery
I'm going to have to say that an aluminum rod is by far the best choice for any car making anything over 800whp. I ran Crower rods for years with no problems with the bearings, that was until started making some serious power (above 800whp)
Above 800whp I was pulling the pan off every 3 events and checking the bearings on the crowers, and as suspected I was not impressed, the bearings would come out looking like ***, but at 650whp the bearings were great with the steal rods.
I made the switch to aluminum rods, I use the R&R aluminum rods and have never looked back. I tossed the rods in with a new set of pistons, rings ect. Never even pulled the motor out of the car, just took the head off and did a quick freshin up job on the bottom end with new rings, the R&R rods, and new pistons (time wasn't on our side since we had a race coming up in a hurry).
Ran a full season on the motor without pulling it apart one time. Running low 9's at 159mph all season long on a 3000lb car (estimated 1000whp) and here is how the bearings looked after the whole season using the R&R aluminum rods ruffly 65-70 low 9sec full blown passes at over 40lbs of boost and 100shot to boot and 10,500rpm shifts.
Needless to say I was very happy to see these results. I plan on running the same rods that came out of the motor for this upcoming 2008 season.
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Jan 9, 2008, 06:34 PM
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Very nice glad to see things are working out! Hope we can get allot of good information this year on the aluminum rods both in street use and race use.
I still would like to know what the benefits/downfalls of having a ribbed cap design that some aluminum rods have compared to others having a flat cap design are?
Chris
I still would like to know what the benefits/downfalls of having a ribbed cap design that some aluminum rods have compared to others having a flat cap design are?
Chris
Last edited by 2k4EvoVIII; Jan 9, 2008 at 06:39 PM.
Jan 9, 2008, 06:46 PM
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Very nice glad to see things are working out! Hope we can get allot of good information this year on the aluminum rods both in street use and race use.
I still would like to know what the benefits/downfalls of having a ribbed cap design that some aluminum rods have compared to others having a flat cap design are?
Chris
I still would like to know what the benefits/downfalls of having a ribbed cap design that some aluminum rods have compared to others having a flat cap design are?
Chris
Jan 9, 2008, 07:26 PM
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Yes from what most of the big engine builders have said they are recommended for 800whp+. As far as street use that is really unchartered territory at the moment. There will be some guys trying this out this coming year. But as things stand right now and until they have been tested for street use i wouldn't recommend them unless you would like to be part of testing.
Chris
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Jan 10, 2008, 07:01 AM
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Speaking in gross generalities, aluminum has the potential to be a little "softer" on bearings than steel. different physical properties clearly exist,
But has anyone actually looked at what sort of alloys they use in these rods? there are some rediculously stiff aluminum alloys out there, as well as some super lightweight steels, that have a lower modulus than your regular steels...
ANybody know of any Titanuim rods for evos? how about Magnesium?
and finally, one more thought...
if alum rods are able to "cushion" the bearings, what kind of force does it take to actually compress the aluminum? Wouldn't this force be better utilized pushing the crank than deforming the rod? And while bearings seem to be a popular topic, what about the rod itself? Anybody ever measure rod length after heavy usage? if the rod itself, isable to "soften" the blow of each combustion event, some of that deformation will be plastic deformation. (Aluminum likes to crack, not rebound...) how much is allowed before the rod is scrapped? a fatigue life of 70,000 miles sounds suspicous to me, as 70,000 miles on a street car, is wildly different from 1/4 mile drag passes........
just something to think about...
Just for comparisoin's sake, ( theses are real general numbers,) Young's Modulus for some materials.......)
Steel = approx 200GPa
Aluminum = approx 60-70 Gpa,
Titanium = approx 115 Gpa,
Magnesium = approx 47Gpa
But has anyone actually looked at what sort of alloys they use in these rods? there are some rediculously stiff aluminum alloys out there, as well as some super lightweight steels, that have a lower modulus than your regular steels...
ANybody know of any Titanuim rods for evos? how about Magnesium?
and finally, one more thought...
if alum rods are able to "cushion" the bearings, what kind of force does it take to actually compress the aluminum? Wouldn't this force be better utilized pushing the crank than deforming the rod? And while bearings seem to be a popular topic, what about the rod itself? Anybody ever measure rod length after heavy usage? if the rod itself, isable to "soften" the blow of each combustion event, some of that deformation will be plastic deformation. (Aluminum likes to crack, not rebound...) how much is allowed before the rod is scrapped? a fatigue life of 70,000 miles sounds suspicous to me, as 70,000 miles on a street car, is wildly different from 1/4 mile drag passes........
just something to think about...
Just for comparisoin's sake, ( theses are real general numbers,) Young's Modulus for some materials.......)
Steel = approx 200GPa
Aluminum = approx 60-70 Gpa,
Titanium = approx 115 Gpa,
Magnesium = approx 47Gpa
Last edited by 4G63DSM; Jan 10, 2008 at 07:08 AM.