Another new PUMP gas record, thanks Driven Innovations
Feb 25, 2008, 12:39 PM
#377
9sec9... with all this excitement over pump fuel numbers, maybe you should shoot for best quarter mile time on pump with Evo Green?
Feb 25, 2008, 12:39 PM
#378
Not yet, but only because I'm not quite finished with the top end of the motor (the last piece to this expensive puzzle). I'll definitely make a new discussion about it when I do. I already have the parts for 3 det can setups, and I'll loan the other two out so we can let others try it as well.
Feb 25, 2008, 12:42 PM
#380
Feb 25, 2008, 12:42 PM
#381
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Correct. This equates into more boost pressure being tolerated, which results in greater power. Where 93 octane is the limiting factor, a motor with 10:1 SCR will not generate as much power as the same motor with 8:1 SCR when the detonation threshold rears its ugly head.
Except that it will not make the same power as the lower compression engine when the boost is turned up, so long as fuel octane is the limiting factor. I would never build a 10:1 street engine if I was limited to 93 octane fuel and used a large turbo. It can be somewhat different story for smaller turbo, lower rpm setups (e.g. WRC cars), but that is a different subject.
Be careful, as that is only true so long as the mixture is not ignited. If we sit and look at a static pressure gauge, yes. If we check the mass of O2 molecules inside the chamber, no. The lower SCR engine will have greater air mass at the same static pressure as the higher SCR engine. The lower SCR engine makes more power before detonation steps in.
Except that it will not make the same power as the lower compression engine when the boost is turned up, so long as fuel octane is the limiting factor. I would never build a 10:1 street engine if I was limited to 93 octane fuel and used a large turbo. It can be somewhat different story for smaller turbo, lower rpm setups (e.g. WRC cars), but that is a different subject.
Be careful, as that is only true so long as the mixture is not ignited. If we sit and look at a static pressure gauge, yes. If we check the mass of O2 molecules inside the chamber, no. The lower SCR engine will have greater air mass at the same static pressure as the higher SCR engine. The lower SCR engine makes more power before detonation steps in.
I agree with everything you said as well.
Feb 25, 2008, 12:43 PM
#382
We have NEVER blown up an engine trying to further advance the power we were making on pump gas. Has not happened.
Mark S. you asked how these cars are driven on a daily basis that we are building. IF I dyno a car at XX amount of power and hand the customer the dyno sheet from it, that is how it is set up to run everyday. I don't make a glory pass on the dyno and give him a dyno sheet and then de-tune it and turn the boost down.
Peter's car has our dual stage boost controller on it. His low setting is 30 psi, his high setting is 43 psi (race gas on high). As a reminder, Peter does not own a trailer and has driven back and forth from our shop to New Jersey each and evertime with the car. That's a 7 hour drive (minimum) each way. The car/engine has been in for well over a year now. No problems.
Trent's car is set up the same way as Peter's. It has made 520'ish at 30 psi on pump gas. The car runs 10.6 at 134 mph in the 1/4 mile on straight 93. It is a full weight EVO, air conditioning, air bags, power everything etc. He drives his car 124 miles per day round trip to work plug anywhere else he goes. Also, never a problem with the car.
I see some talk of high boost but haven't seen any high numbers. It's nothing to tune a car here at 40-45 psi of boost on race gas. 50+ is nothing but obviously not done on a daily basis as it is usually reserved for the race car stuff we build.
Road Racing. I would not be afraid to see Peter or Trent's car out on a road course for a 20 minute session or Time Attack type event exactly how they have been tuned. Knock counts are knock counts whether it's on race gas or pump gas. These cars, while they are making big power, are not tuned on the ragged edge, they are tuned to drive like this everyday at these power levels and stay together.
Mark S. you asked how these cars are driven on a daily basis that we are building. IF I dyno a car at XX amount of power and hand the customer the dyno sheet from it, that is how it is set up to run everyday. I don't make a glory pass on the dyno and give him a dyno sheet and then de-tune it and turn the boost down.
Peter's car has our dual stage boost controller on it. His low setting is 30 psi, his high setting is 43 psi (race gas on high). As a reminder, Peter does not own a trailer and has driven back and forth from our shop to New Jersey each and evertime with the car. That's a 7 hour drive (minimum) each way. The car/engine has been in for well over a year now. No problems.
Trent's car is set up the same way as Peter's. It has made 520'ish at 30 psi on pump gas. The car runs 10.6 at 134 mph in the 1/4 mile on straight 93. It is a full weight EVO, air conditioning, air bags, power everything etc. He drives his car 124 miles per day round trip to work plug anywhere else he goes. Also, never a problem with the car.
I see some talk of high boost but haven't seen any high numbers. It's nothing to tune a car here at 40-45 psi of boost on race gas. 50+ is nothing but obviously not done on a daily basis as it is usually reserved for the race car stuff we build.
Road Racing. I would not be afraid to see Peter or Trent's car out on a road course for a 20 minute session or Time Attack type event exactly how they have been tuned. Knock counts are knock counts whether it's on race gas or pump gas. These cars, while they are making big power, are not tuned on the ragged edge, they are tuned to drive like this everyday at these power levels and stay together.
Feb 25, 2008, 12:45 PM
#384
Feb 25, 2008, 12:50 PM
#385
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We have NEVER blown up an engine trying to further advance the power we were making on pump gas. Has not happened.
Mark S. you asked how these cars are driven on a daily basis that we are building. IF I dyno a car at XX amount of power and hand the customer the dyno sheet from it, that is how it is set up to run everyday. I don't make a glory pass on the dyno and give him a dyno sheet and then de-tune it and turn the boost down.
Peter's car has our dual stage boost controller on it. His low setting is 30 psi, his high setting is 43 psi (race gas on high). As a reminder, Peter does not own a trailer and has driven back and forth from our shop to New Jersey each and evertime with the car. That's a 7 hour drive (minimum) each way. The car/engine has been in for well over a year now. No problems.
Trent's car is set up the same way as Peter's. It has made 520'ish at 30 psi on pump gas. The car runs 10.6 at 134 mph in the 1/4 mile on straight 93. It is a full weight EVO, air conditioning, air bags, power everything etc. He drives his car 124 miles per day round trip to work plug anywhere else he goes. Also, never a problem with the car.
I see some talk of high boost but haven't seen any high numbers. It's nothing to tune a car here at 40-45 psi of boost on race gas. 50+ is nothing but obviously not done on a daily basis as it is usually reserved for the race car stuff we build.
Road Racing. I would not be afraid to see Peter or Trent's car out on a road course for a 20 minute session or Time Attack type event exactly how they have been tuned. Knock counts are knock counts whether it's on race gas or pump gas. These cars, while they are making big power, are not tuned on the ragged edge, they are tuned to drive like this everyday at these power levels and stay together.
Mark S. you asked how these cars are driven on a daily basis that we are building. IF I dyno a car at XX amount of power and hand the customer the dyno sheet from it, that is how it is set up to run everyday. I don't make a glory pass on the dyno and give him a dyno sheet and then de-tune it and turn the boost down.
Peter's car has our dual stage boost controller on it. His low setting is 30 psi, his high setting is 43 psi (race gas on high). As a reminder, Peter does not own a trailer and has driven back and forth from our shop to New Jersey each and evertime with the car. That's a 7 hour drive (minimum) each way. The car/engine has been in for well over a year now. No problems.
Trent's car is set up the same way as Peter's. It has made 520'ish at 30 psi on pump gas. The car runs 10.6 at 134 mph in the 1/4 mile on straight 93. It is a full weight EVO, air conditioning, air bags, power everything etc. He drives his car 124 miles per day round trip to work plug anywhere else he goes. Also, never a problem with the car.
I see some talk of high boost but haven't seen any high numbers. It's nothing to tune a car here at 40-45 psi of boost on race gas. 50+ is nothing but obviously not done on a daily basis as it is usually reserved for the race car stuff we build.
Road Racing. I would not be afraid to see Peter or Trent's car out on a road course for a 20 minute session or Time Attack type event exactly how they have been tuned. Knock counts are knock counts whether it's on race gas or pump gas. These cars, while they are making big power, are not tuned on the ragged edge, they are tuned to drive like this everyday at these power levels and stay together.
Dave thats good to hear, I have seen many times over here big numbers but realy a dyno queen never to be run on the road.
Mark
Feb 25, 2008, 12:51 PM
#386
Dave I've seen several engine dyno and chassis dyno results from Mark a year or two ago with around 620 hp on pump with GT35R customer cars. Now U2SLO's car did 620 atw Dynojet... I suspect that is probably around 680-700 flywheel. So you're about 80 hp up from what Mark does on pump for GT35R cars.
That said, there are a lot of variables but to say you haven't seen any high numbers is just not the case.
That said, there are a lot of variables but to say you haven't seen any high numbers is just not the case.
Feb 25, 2008, 01:02 PM
#388
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Dave I've seen several engine dyno and chassis dyno results from Mark a year or two ago with around 620 hp on pump with GT35R customer cars. Now U2SLO's car did 620 atw Dynojet... I suspect that is probably around 680-700 flywheel. So you're about 80 hp up from what Mark does on pump for GT35R cars.
That said, there are a lot of variables but to say you haven't seen any high numbers is just not the case.
That said, there are a lot of variables but to say you haven't seen any high numbers is just not the case.
If you talk of UK rated HP I recon my engine is about 30/40hp off the max possible based on UK fuel, This is due to the spec I choose to run for driveablity/responce and low end torque,
So if they are higher
its not by a realy big deal
.Mark
Feb 25, 2008, 01:02 PM
#389
Bit off topic but I think fastest Green is 9sec9 with something like 10.5... on pump I don't think anyone pays attention to that. But I think it would be cool to see more emphasis on pump figures as that is how the car is driven day in and day out.
