Another new PUMP gas record, thanks Driven Innovations
Feb 27, 2008, 08:14 AM
#541
What his cam gear settings are set to would be a bit irrelevant IMHO if he did not degree his cams properly to begin with.
Feb 27, 2008, 08:53 AM
#543
I have attempted to completely stay out of any threads of yours or ETS's so we can all just do what we do and move ahead.
The car for sure does not have a GT45 anything on it.
*****I just finished reading the rest of the posts and did not notice the question marks in your post Paul. So, sorry that I missed it.
Last edited by David Buschur; Feb 27, 2008 at 09:03 AM.
Feb 27, 2008, 10:03 AM
#544
I don't know why you have to be like that Paul. Some of us choose to put everything out there we are doing and some of us chose not too. I would think if Al wanted to discuss in detail what he has done he would have. You just jumping to conclusions about what was done and posting it like it fact........is wrong and not needed.
I have attempted to completely stay out of any threads of yours or ETS's so we can all just do what we do and move ahead.
The car for sure does not have a GT45 anything on it.
*****I just finished reading the rest of the posts and did not notice the question marks in your post Paul. So, sorry that I missed it.
I have attempted to completely stay out of any threads of yours or ETS's so we can all just do what we do and move ahead.
The car for sure does not have a GT45 anything on it.
*****I just finished reading the rest of the posts and did not notice the question marks in your post Paul. So, sorry that I missed it.
And if this is not true then Once again Al's videos are misleading.
Feb 27, 2008, 10:29 AM
#546
crcain, This is definitely not directed at you. This is a general question based on your point that the UK has been doing the pump gas/boost, making power, etc comments. If the UK and it's tuners have been that far ahead of the US and it's tuners, then why didn't some or at least 1 of those tuners chime in on EVOM and fully disclose what they have done and help the locals on this side of the pond. I'm certain what you've said is true, but if the US tuners have been scrutinized for not disclosing what and how they tune a car, then can't the UK tuners be also scrutinized for not disclosing or at least offering their 2 cents on critical issues? It's kind of late and mis-directed to expect anyone in the US to FULLY disclose the facts of a tune or build and not equally fault the UK for not posting what they have done. It goes both ways. Again, I'm just making sure that if the UK is to get credit for what they've done, they should also get faulted for what they haven't.
Feb 27, 2008, 11:17 AM
#547
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I don't normally interject on this aspect of discussions, but I had to take exception with crcain's comments.
Your observations of US vs UK tuners, well, obviously its a little skewed. In some respects you have some good points.
Understand that for awhile it was believed that the quality of gas in the US was different enough for many of us to be fairly conservative with our pump gas tuning goals. We were dealing with a newer design 4G63 engine, a new platform, new transmission, and had to learn many of these new things on our own.
HP numbers are more frequently measured in BHP, or if it is WHP, it always seems to be on a chassis dyno that we don't frequently see here. It makes comparisons difficult to impossible without "fudging the multiplier" with what is an estimated comparison value.
What was learned about the Evo's capabilities has been done in a relatively short time, in most cases by trial and error and testing the limits.
Your earlier post about high boost applications on pump and us not 'catching on' to what the UK has been doing just isn't true. There are MANY of us who have been running high boost, but have been reluctant to talk about it. Tuners also have to be somewhat conservative until their confident their work won't do more harm then good, especially in the USA where the name of the game is "blame others for your own mistakes" and the lawsuits that follow. As an individual, I've followed the progression of different technology, methodologies, and successes from all over. Since 2003, everyone has pretty much been progressing similarly.
I personally was surprised to see how much boost I could pump through my stock engine and turbo, but I was also concerned that I'd also have expensive repairs if I broke something, or someone else decided to copy what I was attempting and of course, breaks something. So I generally kept quiet. I'm sure most tuners felt the same way. Some people are just secretive and discovered these tricks and just kept it to themselves.
Pete has ridden in my car back in 2003, when it was very mildly modified, my car was unusually fast at that time.. I wonder why?
Okay, so I took a little offense to that post. Most of what is being figured out isn't rocket science, some may be faster than others, much of it is already known, just not widely talked about.
Your observations of US vs UK tuners, well, obviously its a little skewed. In some respects you have some good points.
Understand that for awhile it was believed that the quality of gas in the US was different enough for many of us to be fairly conservative with our pump gas tuning goals. We were dealing with a newer design 4G63 engine, a new platform, new transmission, and had to learn many of these new things on our own.
HP numbers are more frequently measured in BHP, or if it is WHP, it always seems to be on a chassis dyno that we don't frequently see here. It makes comparisons difficult to impossible without "fudging the multiplier" with what is an estimated comparison value.
What was learned about the Evo's capabilities has been done in a relatively short time, in most cases by trial and error and testing the limits.
Your earlier post about high boost applications on pump and us not 'catching on' to what the UK has been doing just isn't true. There are MANY of us who have been running high boost, but have been reluctant to talk about it. Tuners also have to be somewhat conservative until their confident their work won't do more harm then good, especially in the USA where the name of the game is "blame others for your own mistakes" and the lawsuits that follow. As an individual, I've followed the progression of different technology, methodologies, and successes from all over. Since 2003, everyone has pretty much been progressing similarly.
I personally was surprised to see how much boost I could pump through my stock engine and turbo, but I was also concerned that I'd also have expensive repairs if I broke something, or someone else decided to copy what I was attempting and of course, breaks something. So I generally kept quiet. I'm sure most tuners felt the same way. Some people are just secretive and discovered these tricks and just kept it to themselves.
Pete has ridden in my car back in 2003, when it was very mildly modified, my car was unusually fast at that time.. I wonder why?
Okay, so I took a little offense to that post. Most of what is being figured out isn't rocket science, some may be faster than others, much of it is already known, just not widely talked about.
Malibujack, I think you are 100% right. There way of measuring power is different than over here for the most part, and can't be compared
Feb 27, 2008, 12:30 PM
#551
Rather than debating with me, why not ask the tuners in the USA why they have not tried running more boost on pump. How is it that 99% of every modified Evo in the US has been running MAX 23 psi on pump.
I'm not saying run 30 psi on a stock Evo. But it seems provable that a well put together Evo should be able to run 28 psi easy on 93. I live in the Caribbean with fuel so crappy they don't even label the pumps! But I can run 32 psi no probs, thanks to a good tune from Mark in England.
Don't argue with me... let's ask all the tuners who have been tuning GT35's at 22 psi on pump why they chose that boost level. I mean did they simply have no more ignition advance? Not likely. Did they make less power with say 25 psi? Not likely. It just does not add up.
I'm not saying run 30 psi on a stock Evo. But it seems provable that a well put together Evo should be able to run 28 psi easy on 93. I live in the Caribbean with fuel so crappy they don't even label the pumps! But I can run 32 psi no probs, thanks to a good tune from Mark in England.
Don't argue with me... let's ask all the tuners who have been tuning GT35's at 22 psi on pump why they chose that boost level. I mean did they simply have no more ignition advance? Not likely. Did they make less power with say 25 psi? Not likely. It just does not add up.
Feb 27, 2008, 01:02 PM
#552
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I have a question. Why is everyone is everyone trying to put each other down here. I think it's great what David, Peter and the others on this fourm have done with pump gas. David has shown he can consistantly make great HP thats a given and Norris's Hp is right on top also, who can argue with a 201 MPH race car. I think the info provided by all can only help the guys out who are trying to get to this level. I for one, am thankfull for all these tuners that are actually doing this rather than those putting them down who dont even make two thirds the power in their cars. It saves thousands on development and trial and error and gives everyone a solid combination to start from for their own projects. To the people who are bagging on those who did the development, how many dollars have you spent to develop a package that anyone can buy off the shelf . So drop it. I have talked with Peter and he is VERY humble and can not give enough thanks to all that made that happen. So to all the tuners out on the edge tuning pumg gas engines a Thank You and Cheers
Last edited by Indy Evo; Feb 27, 2008 at 01:28 PM.
Feb 27, 2008, 01:12 PM
#553
Rather than debating with me, why not ask the tuners in the USA why they have not tried running more boost on pump. How is it that 99% of every modified Evo in the US has been running MAX 23 psi on pump.
I'm not saying run 30 psi on a stock Evo. But it seems provable that a well put together Evo should be able to run 28 psi easy on 93. I live in the Caribbean with fuel so crappy they don't even label the pumps! But I can run 32 psi no probs, thanks to a good tune from Mark in England.
Don't argue with me... let's ask all the tuners who have been tuning GT35's at 22 psi on pump why they chose that boost level. I mean did they simply have no more ignition advance? Not likely. Did they make less power with say 25 psi? Not likely. It just does not add up.
I'm not saying run 30 psi on a stock Evo. But it seems provable that a well put together Evo should be able to run 28 psi easy on 93. I live in the Caribbean with fuel so crappy they don't even label the pumps! But I can run 32 psi no probs, thanks to a good tune from Mark in England.
Don't argue with me... let's ask all the tuners who have been tuning GT35's at 22 psi on pump why they chose that boost level. I mean did they simply have no more ignition advance? Not likely. Did they make less power with say 25 psi? Not likely. It just does not add up.
Feb 27, 2008, 01:26 PM
#555
I'm not trying to put anyone down. I have a lot of respect for just about every participant in this thread. It's just that I wanted to point big power on pump is done. People in this thread have asked what a GT4X turb would do on pump in this thread, I've showed links of UK tuners doing it. People have said the UK is slow in this thread, I've showed some examples of quick cars.
Finally I've been ultimately curious about the 23 psi max conventional wisdom on this board for a long time. To me the only logical answer is inexperienced tuners. That is a bold statement but it is my only logical conclusion. If people take offense well then I'm just waiting for them to chime in and explain so I can learn.
Hope this makes sense.
Finally I've been ultimately curious about the 23 psi max conventional wisdom on this board for a long time. To me the only logical answer is inexperienced tuners. That is a bold statement but it is my only logical conclusion. If people take offense well then I'm just waiting for them to chime in and explain so I can learn.
Hope this makes sense.