Um yes it's me. I made a new screen name about a week ago. Posting under AMS didn't really put a name behind the post. BTW I'm not talking crap, I'm speaking about my experience tuning and the facts.

 

Alright, editing now

 

i hope this duscussion will stay civil, very interested in this.

 

Martin is a very civil person, his main reason for posting is to educate. He just wants people to see the other side of pump gas tuning and its risks.

Eric

 

We are talking about martin and DB, their companies keep in touch and always keep it civil. Ive always enjoyed to see what 2 of the best tuners out there thought about each others methods.

 

Martin,

I think you've taken offense to my "tuning situation" I said to sharkbite. So you know I've only spoken to sharkbite once and that was about him stopping here on his way back from your shop just to see what his car made on our dyno, he called me but never came to our shop. I have never tried to sell him anything or get him to come here. The "tuning situation" that I was referring to is, I was told he was offered a 2 year warranty from you guys on his engine as long as NOBODY else tuned the car, that is his "tuning situation". I meant nothing else by it. I also said that if someone offered me a 2 year warranty on their work I'd sure as hell not have someone else tune my car.

I guess when you were making all that power you should have made a post about it, it would have been much more believable. Tuning on E85 and making power is nothing like making it safely with 93, I am sure you know that. E85 is more comparable to C16.

As for 600 whp being safe or not safe on 93 octane. From the looks of Peter's car it's pretty safe. 9,000 miles and no troubles. The videos, dyno runs and constant *** whooping he keeps handing out should be proof enough. To question it seems silly, to imply it isn't safe is rediculous, if it was so dangerous he'd have blown up or broken by now, you don't agree?

While 620 whp on 93 octane may be pushing the limits a bit wouldn't you agree 420 whp is a little over conservative?

I haven't had a singe, NOT ONE, 500+ whp pump gas EVO leave here yet that has hurt the engine, not ONE.

 

This will be interesting. Hopefully stay civil too.

 

600hp, 30 psi on 93 may be safe for one engine, but might be the total opposite for a different engine combination. I guess you cant really compare what is safe on one motor to another, so many different factors to consider. The things i would be most worried about with making big power on pump fuel are high EGT's and knock control and detection.

What EGT's are considered safe?

Why haven't stand alone ecu manufactures really put some effort into making a really good knock detection system?

 

Big pumpgas Numbers get easier with the evolution of combinations on these evos, the gt42 cars will do it easily, no big deal, better volumetric efficiency.

I remember pushing the stock motor combo over 500 on pump/meth, this was a few yrs ago and I cannot remember it being common at that time, today quite common.

Martin is an excellent tuner, and I have seen many examples of his work. There are very few AEM tuners out there as good as Martin. In Martin's defense, I would say 420hp on 23psi is what I turn alot of cars out at very safe, and exactly what they make with those sized turbos, sure there is more that can be made if you push, but the margin of safety becomes less and less.

You will notice with the Hondas that a B18 C motor can do it very easily, 600HP pumpgas, less boost than an evo engine with the same sized turbo, engine design good breathing will allow it to make the HP at lower boost levels.

As for 32psi on an evo, with the bigger available cams, Jun, BR whatever I do them all the time they will make 600HP, I have accidentally made that without the meth not even realizing it was not on till I noticed the elevated knock levels, so it's doable, but it will be knocking on 93 octane pump, and you can do it but I expect the engine to degrade eventually, but who runs them to 100K like that.

The laws of physics dictate what can be done on certain fuels, if not so why not make 700HP on 93 octane.

Not all customers are carefull and meticulous about their cars, some do not even notice when something is wrong. Therefore I would be very reluctant sending the car out like that. Put the meth on it, let's have a little more safety margin.

AEM knock detection while very usefull on cars that are lightly modded is less usefull after a certain point, especially when you do supras and certain other cars it becomes very obvious, I agree with martin 100% there is more to knock detection than that.

Dave has a good customer, and he obviously is in tune with the car. It did make 600HP on pumpgas, it did beat up on a few cars, it seems to be still running. I do know it weighs in at 2575lbs without driver. With 750 wheel HP it will fly.


Sean

 

Seems 520whp may be just right

 

It's called balance of "power" during the cold war years

 

One other thing, this is directed at Martin. I am not going to get into a pissing match with you (AMS) publically or privately because we have always gotten along. Many people here would like to see us do that I am sure. I have the utmost respect for you (Martin) and AMS. So, I am really hoping that your response to me was just because you misunderstood what I meant about Sharkbite's "Tuning situation".

I also cannot hold a technical conversation with you Martin, you are an engineer and proud of that, as you should be. I am an ignorant back woods redneck that just gets the job done. So if you want to talk about designing camshafts you will have to call Crane or Comp or GSC. I just know that of all the cam testing we've done (on the dyno, track and street) that our cams seem to work the best with pump gas. Why? I have no idea and don't really care either, as long as they work I am happy with that, that's because I am "simple".

JCEVO1, you are 110% absolutely correct. 500+ whp is not only NOT safe on every build it isn't even possible on MOST builds. It has only become a safe possibilty for me in the last year or so. I can't do it on every car because every car isn't set up properly.

As a side note I am 100% confident I could do it using all AMS parts or parts that they atleast offer, so I am not saying it can only be done with OUR parts.

 

Get er done!

 

Just an idea, but let us keep posts in this thread really focused on the thread topic and leave replies to people who can contribute to the notion of what is involved in making good power on pump.

 

i wonder if anyone is going to mention the difference between detonation and pre-ignition?

Google it people!!

ALso, AMS,, what are you using for your cam design software? AVL fire, boost, and excite? Are you guys ricardo software fans? Gt power? 4stHEAD? virtual four stroke?

I would love to know!!