This time, I am in need of help
Mar 10, 2008, 02:51 PM
#91
Kevin, the scaling took a while to dial in, and the end result was 464, but the latencies weren't touched.
I have some logs now, but unfortunately the person who helped me didn't have any of the 2-byte stuff in his EvoScan Data file, so my airflow maxes at 1600 as expected. I have all the add-ins for my EvoScan Data file, but it doesn't log, so no luck there. I also have to find a driver for my serial-to-USB cable to work with my laptop before I can log wideband AFRs.
2 logs are attached with 2 pulls each. One has two 2nd gear pulls and the other has one from 2nd and one from 3rd. I simply can't go fast enough around here to do 3rd gear pulls all the way through and even doing one to 6500 is risky enough. Looks like there are some knock issues, but at least I wasn't sputtering this time even in 3rd gear with the raised boost and .019 gap on the BR8ES plugs.
I have some logs now, but unfortunately the person who helped me didn't have any of the 2-byte stuff in his EvoScan Data file, so my airflow maxes at 1600 as expected. I have all the add-ins for my EvoScan Data file, but it doesn't log, so no luck there. I also have to find a driver for my serial-to-USB cable to work with my laptop before I can log wideband AFRs.
2 logs are attached with 2 pulls each. One has two 2nd gear pulls and the other has one from 2nd and one from 3rd. I simply can't go fast enough around here to do 3rd gear pulls all the way through and even doing one to 6500 is risky enough. Looks like there are some knock issues, but at least I wasn't sputtering this time even in 3rd gear with the raised boost and .019 gap on the BR8ES plugs.
Mar 10, 2008, 05:11 PM
#94
Yep, that was one of the things I listed on the first post as a "to-do" item, but I just have to hook up with another Evo owner to get it done. Aren't the coil packs and plug wires one-in-the-same? You said you had swapped coil packs without any luck, but then it worked when you changed the wires? Or, are you saying that during the troubleshooting, you determined it was a bad wire in which case installing another Evo's coil packs/wires worked fine?
Mar 10, 2008, 05:25 PM
#95
NO, I didn't know - they look like one piece to me unless I am referring to the wrong thing as coil packs. On my DSMs, we had JUST 4 plug wires - that's it. On the Evo, there are these 2 wierd things that each have 2 plug wires connected to them, so I refer to them as one unit, since they are never separated on my car.
Doesn't seem to be a problem with coil packs or wires, though, since I have gotten rid of the sputtering, but I am not certain it's gone for good because of the warm (relatively) day. If a bad plug wire or coil pack can cause DEGREES of problem as opposed to just being bad or good, then maybe that still a possibility.
Doesn't seem to be a problem with coil packs or wires, though, since I have gotten rid of the sputtering, but I am not certain it's gone for good because of the warm (relatively) day. If a bad plug wire or coil pack can cause DEGREES of problem as opposed to just being bad or good, then maybe that still a possibility.
Mar 10, 2008, 05:59 PM
#96
stoic AFR for E85 is 9.8:1 and you should say your wideband is UNcorrected for E85 as it is still calibrated for gasoline if your showing AFR's of 12:1.
whatever you are using for a wideband, is it possible to readout in lambda? then the AFR correction factors will no longer be an issue.
and 9sec9, the wideband reads lambda which tells us how rich/lean it is. if the wideband is showing a lambda of .8, then we know no matter what fuel he is running, it is rich. likewise if it was showing 1.2, then no matter what fuel he was using it would be lean.
additionally, if you have the AFR calibrated for gasoline (and really its not a calibration factor, it is simply a scaling factor from lambda), and it is showing 12:1 AFR, then no matter what fuel is being used it is still rich. if he has corrected the wideband to run on E85 and it knows that stoic ratio is 9.8:1, and he was still showing 12:1 AFR at WOT, then it would be running lean. but assuming he didn't touch the wideband, we should all go on the assumption that it is gas calibrated and 12:1 AFR is still rich from stoic ratio.
whatever you are using for a wideband, is it possible to readout in lambda? then the AFR correction factors will no longer be an issue.
and 9sec9, the wideband reads lambda which tells us how rich/lean it is. if the wideband is showing a lambda of .8, then we know no matter what fuel he is running, it is rich. likewise if it was showing 1.2, then no matter what fuel he was using it would be lean.
additionally, if you have the AFR calibrated for gasoline (and really its not a calibration factor, it is simply a scaling factor from lambda), and it is showing 12:1 AFR, then no matter what fuel is being used it is still rich. if he has corrected the wideband to run on E85 and it knows that stoic ratio is 9.8:1, and he was still showing 12:1 AFR at WOT, then it would be running lean. but assuming he didn't touch the wideband, we should all go on the assumption that it is gas calibrated and 12:1 AFR is still rich from stoic ratio.
Mar 10, 2008, 08:16 PM
#97
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NO, I didn't know - they look like one piece to me unless I am referring to the wrong thing as coil packs. On my DSMs, we had JUST 4 plug wires - that's it. On the Evo, there are these 2 wierd things that each have 2 plug wires connected to them, so I refer to them as one unit, since they are never separated on my car.
the "coil" part has one of the plug wires coming out below it directly over the plug. this wire will come off the coil pack if you pull on it. and if you go to the dealer and ask to buy a coil pack all you'll get is the coil, not the wire below it.
Mar 10, 2008, 09:58 PM
#98
Ok, I think we finally have some good data here. Here are 2 good 3rd gear pulls where I've deleted all the extraneous info to help make it clearer and quicker to analyze. Here are some details of the runs:
- ~45-50* ambient temps
- No sputter whatsoever in 2nd or 3rd gear (full pulls)
- 1st run was a roll into boost from very low rpm
- 2nd pull was while hovering right near 4k rpm and stabbing the throttle
- BR8ES gapped to .019
- E-85 but could be a winter blind
What I see:
- Rich on spoolup and rich all the way to about 5k rpm before it starts to climb above 11s, but it never gets close to 12
- Knock on every run so far, although it's not heavy, but it's consistent and causing timing to lag
- Timing advance is pretty decent for this altitude, but it doesn't look aggressive for E-85
- Unknown exact boost, but my gauge is hitting about 27...maybe 28 psi and tapers to below 20psi by the end of the run (altitude). This is probably 24-25psi actual peak boost
- ~45-50* ambient temps
- No sputter whatsoever in 2nd or 3rd gear (full pulls)
- 1st run was a roll into boost from very low rpm
- 2nd pull was while hovering right near 4k rpm and stabbing the throttle
- BR8ES gapped to .019
- E-85 but could be a winter blind
What I see:
- Rich on spoolup and rich all the way to about 5k rpm before it starts to climb above 11s, but it never gets close to 12
- Knock on every run so far, although it's not heavy, but it's consistent and causing timing to lag
- Timing advance is pretty decent for this altitude, but it doesn't look aggressive for E-85
- Unknown exact boost, but my gauge is hitting about 27...maybe 28 psi and tapers to below 20psi by the end of the run (altitude). This is probably 24-25psi actual peak boost
Mar 10, 2008, 11:00 PM
#99
Warr,
I apologize in advance if this has already been touched on, but have you done a boost leak test?
I've had a couple customers that have complained of the "machine gun" breakup while using their race gas tunes. All of them have come in and have had boost leaks. Fixed them and now no mo' machine gun.
For some reason they would only manifest themselves into bad breakup with the race level boost levels, which makes some sense since a boost leak would get bigger with more pressure.
Could be your issue, or not. But worth a check.
I apologize in advance if this has already been touched on, but have you done a boost leak test?
I've had a couple customers that have complained of the "machine gun" breakup while using their race gas tunes. All of them have come in and have had boost leaks. Fixed them and now no mo' machine gun.
For some reason they would only manifest themselves into bad breakup with the race level boost levels, which makes some sense since a boost leak would get bigger with more pressure.
Could be your issue, or not. But worth a check.
Mar 10, 2008, 11:08 PM
#100
Quick input on this post.
-Every EVO that is tuned in the low 11s high 10s runs a .89-91 on the narrow band that is how I could tell it was to rich.
-I run my cars in the mid 11s most of the time and have made full passes at 13.0AFS with nothing getting hurt on my stock motor. I have found that the HP seems to be the best between 11.0 and 12.0 and much richer then 11.0 you start to lose hp and leaner then 12.0 does not hurt, but does not make any more hp and you start to lose your safety buffer.
I also always turn the O2 off on E85 cars and tune the cruse at a 16.0 afr. This will also let you know real quick if the batch has changed.
I have tried everything form 7s-10s on plugs, rester, nonrester, projection, non projection and all I can tell is when I start running non projection or colder then a 8 the plugs do not last as long before they start breaking up.
With his timing # he must be on E70.
-Every EVO that is tuned in the low 11s high 10s runs a .89-91 on the narrow band that is how I could tell it was to rich.
-I run my cars in the mid 11s most of the time and have made full passes at 13.0AFS with nothing getting hurt on my stock motor. I have found that the HP seems to be the best between 11.0 and 12.0 and much richer then 11.0 you start to lose hp and leaner then 12.0 does not hurt, but does not make any more hp and you start to lose your safety buffer.
I also always turn the O2 off on E85 cars and tune the cruse at a 16.0 afr. This will also let you know real quick if the batch has changed.
I have tried everything form 7s-10s on plugs, rester, nonrester, projection, non projection and all I can tell is when I start running non projection or colder then a 8 the plugs do not last as long before they start breaking up.
With his timing # he must be on E70.
Mar 11, 2008, 09:55 AM
#102
Got some good logs last night in cold weather without sputtering, and now today I was able to get some good logs using EvoScan with 2-byte readings, wideband, knock, and the other good items through v1.0 thanks to Bryan. Based on my logs, though, it really does seem like my E-85 is weaker E-70.
Mar 11, 2008, 09:28 PM
#104
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Maybe you´ve got a funky plug Warr. How many miles on that set? The 8´s will tend to foul quicker than the 7´s. Maybe try a fresh set of 8´s gapped at .22-.23 or the BR7ES´s. At what RPM are you getting knock?
E85 is still too much of a PITA to get for me, even though I live in MN.