Sailorgoon

iTrader: (1)

The gas cap has to be on tight for pressure to build in the tank. Without the cap on, the computer can't determine proper mix ratios. It messes with the emissions and will throw the computer into a tail spin. Since it can't adapt to the situation, it'll enter "limp mode" and run very very rich, the idea being so the can can limp to the dealer once it throws a CEL.

Quick fix: don't run the car while fueling. The sticker on the pump says not to anyway.

Sailorgoon

iTrader: (1)

EDIT: SOmehow, I spelled "car" incorrectly. Fixed...lol.

5StarSuzuki

There is no safety issue to worry about...it will not blow up. But your sensors (suzuki has a gas tank pressure sensor...mitsu probably has the same) will misread and trigger a CEL.

Redcloud

No safety issue?? I think you should check out your "state college" for some higher ecucation!

BigBoogieman

So what's the safety issue? Could the car somehow magically explode if it's running with an open gas cap? Not that I would ever leave my car running while refuling, just always wondered about that.

5StarSuzuki

Explain to me (in logical facts) what the safety hazard is? There is none...but then again, they also have signs that say "Please do not smoke at the gas pumps!"

narangdisco

Actually, gas tank FUMES is very dangerous. Fumes can also cause fire
if it gets contact with automobiles electric devices. even with ur cellphone.

digdat

iTrader: (31)

Think of why you can't refill a gas can while it sitting in the back of a truck pickup bed; static electricity.

static electricity + gas tank gumes = Fire in gastank

My aunt had this happen to her. She was pumping with the car on .. rubbed against the car or something and the fumes caught fire. Engulfed her gas tank/car. They got the pump turned off so there wasn't an explosion but it toasted her car like you couldn't believe.

Insurance company would not cover it because she had her car running while pumping. She was neglegent and therefore caused the fire. I do believe she's still fighting it in court.

timzcat

iTrader: (10)

I believe it is illegal in some states to pump gas with the car running. Gas is not flammable as a liquid but as a gas it is extremely flammable. Anything can spark a fire. Static electricity, electronic devices.

BigBoogieman

Wow, that's a pretty scary thought. What does the static electricity have to do with leaving the car running though?

timzcat

iTrader: (10)

A car is not grounded to earth, therefore there is more possibility of static discharge when the car is running because of all the electrical circuits in use, etc.
If you can get out of the car (rubbing *** on seat) and blow up a car/gas station do you really want the car running?
But hey it's your car, if you want to watch it burn up and spend sometime in the burn unit just take a ballon to the station with you and rub it on your head before pumping the gas.

cwest

& why do you think the car will blow up?? You are ASUMING it will because that is what your brain just made up.

Maybe if you get under the car & shoot gas a the hot muffler, but who the f--- would do that?

There is NOTHING wrong with leaving it running. It is probably just due to a drop in fuel pressure & the motor just needs to compensate.

All you dude who are calling this guy names & reactionary non-thinking apes who perpeuate bad information & lemming-like behavior.

It is actually better to leave it running because every time you shut the car off you are putting the smog evaporation system to work, causing it to gum up more sooner than later.

Don't be suck freaks & think for a minute why the gas station puts those signs up.......... LIABILITY!

timzcat

iTrader: (10)

Fires at Refueling Sites That Appear To Be Static Related
August 5, 2003

Compiled and written by: Robert N. Renkes
Executive Vice President & General Counsel
Petroleum Equipment Institute
P.O. Box 2380
Tulsa, Oklahoma 74101-2380
(918) 494-9696 (phone)
(918) 491-9895 (fax)
rrenkes@pei.org

BACKGROUND/STATEMENT OF THE PROBLEM:
Until September, 1999, the only motor vehicle refueling fires that the Petroleum Equipment Institute (PEI) was aware of were caused either by an open flame (smoking), lack of electrical continuity between the nozzle and the gasoline dispenser, or a spark from the engine compartment of a vehicle with its motor running. From September 1999 through January 22, 2000, 36 ignitions of gasoline vapors during the refueling process were verbally reported to me at PEI. All occurred during dry weather. There were no open flames and the engines were off. Continuity was verified between the nozzle and dispenser. People that investigated the cause of these accidents concluded that static electricity was the source of ignition in all cases.
HOW PEI GOT INVOLVED:
Although Americans pump gasoline into their cars between 11 and 12 billion times a year without incident, the fact that these fires were occurring in the first place—and with what appeared to be greater frequency—caused PEI to gather additional information about the circumstances surrounding the fires. We carried an article (Document A) in the January 25, 2000, issue of PEI’s newsletter (TulsaLetter), asking readers to report to us all refueling fires presumably caused by static electricity. The same article and request appeared on PEI’s Web site (www.pei.org) on January 23, 2000. An on-line report form accompanied the newsletter on the Web site (Document B).

WHAT PEI ASKED:
The newsletter asked readers to identify the make, model and year of the vehicle, the type of fuel used, type of tires and driveway finish, customer action while refueling, and any other information they believed would be useful. We promised that no oil company or PEI member names would be divulged. All responses were strictly confidential.

INFORMATION PEI INITIALLY RECEIVED:
PEI received 47 first-hand reports of refueling fires attributed to static electricity in response to our request in the newsletter. We also obtained 34 Vehicle Owner’s Questionnaires (VOQs) from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration’s (NHTSA) database which strongly suggested that static electricity was the source of ignition. The reported fires occurred between 1993 and April 1, 2000, with more than half occurring from 1999 through April 1, 2000. A detailed report, similar to the one that follows, was posted on PEI’s web site in May 2000.

INFORMATION PEI HAS RECEIVED THROUGH AUGUST 5, 2003:
PEI continued to receive reports of accidents/fires attributed to static electricity after we issued our report in May 2000, even though we did not actively solicit them in future newsletters. A detailed report listing all fires received and confirmed by PEI through August 5, 2003, contains the following information:

Reports by Year
Reports by Month
Reports by State
Injuries
Damage to Station
Damage to Vehicle
One hundred forty-seven reports (first-hand and NHTSA’s VOQs) have been received from 37 states and Washington, D.C. In all the reports we were able to verify that no open flames, running motors, or electrical continuity problems were involved. The accidents occurred with conventional and vacuum-assist Stage II vapor recovery nozzles. There have been no accidents reported to PEI when balance system nozzles were used. Driveway surfaces included concrete, asphalt, stone, crushed rock and dirt. Fires occurred with many different types of nozzles, hoses, breakaways and dispensers. No cell phones were involved. A wide variety of clothes were worn by the refuelers. Rubber-soled shoes were worn by the refuelers in 94% of the accidents where footwear was identified. A summary of all the fire reports is also included in Document D.

WHY DOES THIS HAPPEN?
The author of this report is not an expert on static electricity. It does appear to many people in the industry, however, that electrostatic charging was the probable cause of the fires. In many of the reports we received, the refueler became charged prior to or during the refueling process through friction between clothing and the car seat to such an extent that electrostatic discharges to the vehicle body, fuel cap or dispensing nozzle occurred. Sixty-eight (68) fires occurred when the fueler returned to the vehicle during the refueling process and then touched the nozzle after leaving the vehicle. Thirty-five (35) reports described fires before the refueling process began, when the fueler touched the gas cap or the area close to it after leaving the vehicle. Twenty-seven (27) fires do not involve either of these two fact situations. In all but two of these cases the fueler was not the source of the electrical discharge and the source of ignition cannot easily be determined. We received insufficient information on seventeen (17) fires reported by NHTSA to confidently categorize them.

PEI has received five excellent articles (Documents E, 1-5) written over the last six years which attempt to explain these types of fires. Most were written in response to similar refueling fires in Germany, the United Kingdom and France from 1992 through 1997. Some offer very detailed explanations about why these refueling fires occur.

INFORMATION PEI DOESN’T HAVE:
Forty-five (45) fires have been verbally reported to us, but no written reports have been submitted. As a consequence, these 45 fires were not included in our report. The American Petroleum Institute (API) conducted a survey similar to PEI’s in 2000 and identified 54 fires attributed to static electricity, most of which did not overlap with those collected by PEI. API’s information is also not included in this report. API’s February 2, 2000, report form (Document C) and its February 3, 2000, Consumer Advisory (Document F-5) are available from PEI.

RESPONSES:
Warnings have been issued by various companies and organizations since November 1999 (Documents F, 1-6).

WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE?
PEI will continue to collect reports of fires, as well as theories and studies about why these fires happen. To contact the author of this report, refer to the numbers listed on the first page.

PEI and API joined together September 23, 2002, to remind motorists how to avoid potential problems with static electricity at the gas pump (Document G). The groups also listed tips on how motorists can follow safe refueling practices (Document H).

OTHER INFORMATION:
Information referenced throughout this summary is identified below. It is not included with this report because of the number of pages involved. We will mail a full set upon request. Contact PEI at the numbers listed on the first page for a copy of the referenced documents.

REFERENCED DOCUMENTS

A. PEI TulsaLetter – January 25, 2000

B. PEI Report Form – January 23, 2000

C. API Report Form – February 2, 2000

D. Summary of Fire Reports

E. Articles

1) German DGMK Project 508 – February 1996

2) Guidelines for the Control of Hazards Arising from Static Electricity – The Institute of Petroleum, London – March 1998

3) Electrostatic Ignitions of Fires and Explosions, Thomas H. Pratt, Burgoyne Inc., Marietta, Georgia (1997)

4) Report on Refueling Ignitions on Petrol Filling Stations in Europe – The Bulletin, Volume 35, August 1997

5) The Role of Static Electricity In Forecourt Fires In Europe – The Bulletin, Volume 38, February 2000

F. Warnings

1) Oil Company Alert: Static Electricity Discharge Explosion Hazards – November 24, 1999

2) Motor Vehicle Fueling Fires - Nebraska State Fire Marshal’s Office – January 2000

3) BP Amoco Press Release – January 24, 2000

4) Flash Fire Alert – Alaska Army National Guard – February 2000

5) Gasoline Refueling Advisory and Safety Guidelines for Consumers – API – February 3, 2000

6) Three petroleum marketer warnings issued January-March 2000

G. PEI/API Joint Press Release (September 23, 2002)

H. Safe Refueling and Fuel Handling Guidelines for Consumers (September 23, 2002)

timzcat

iTrader: (10)

Here are additional consumer refueling safety guidelines that will help keep you and your family safe when refueling your vehicle or filling up gasoline storage containers:


Turn off your vehicle engine while refueling. Put your vehicle in park and/or set the emergency brake. Disable or turn off any auxiliary sources of ignition such as a camper or trailer heater, cooking units or pilot lights.

Do not smoke, light matches or lighters while refueling at the pump or when using gasoline anywhere else.

Use only the refueling latch provided on the gasoline dispenser nozzle -- never jam the refueling latch on the nozzle open.

Do not re-enter your vehicle during refueling.

In the unlikely event a static-caused fire occurs when refueling, leave the nozzle in the fill pipe and back away from the vehicle. Notify the station attendant immediately.

Do not over-fill or top off your vehicle tank, which can cause gasoline spillage.

Avoid prolonged breathing of gasoline vapors. Use gasoline only in open areas that get plenty of fresh air. Keep your face away from the nozzle or container opening.

When dispensing gasoline into a container, use only an approved portable container and place it on the ground when refueling to avoid a possible static electricity ignition of fuel vapors. Containers should never be filled while inside a vehicle or its trunk, the bed of a pickup truck or the floor of a trailer.

Only store gasoline in approved containers as required by federal or state authorities. Never store gasoline in glass or any other unapproved containers.

When filling a portable container, manually control the nozzle valve throughout the filling process. Fill a portable container slowly to decrease the chance of static electricity buildup and minimize spilling or splattering.

Fill container no more than 95 percent full to allow for expansion.

Place cap tightly on the container after filling - do not use containers that do not seal properly.

If gasoline spills on the container, make sure that it has evaporated before you place the container in your vehicle. Report spills to the attendant.

When transporting gasoline in a portable container make sure it is secured against tipping and sliding, and never leave it in direct sunlight or in the trunk of a car.

Never siphon gasoline by mouth nor put gasoline in your mouth for any reason. Gasoline can be harmful or fatal if swallowed. If someone swallows gasoline, do not induce vomiting. Contact a doctor immediately.

Use gasoline as a motor fuel only. Never use gasoline to wash your hands or as a cleaning solvent.

Never allow children to operate the pump.
To reach API's experts on this issue call API Media Relations Representative: Susan L. Hahn at 202-682-8118.

timzcat

iTrader: (10)

Do I need to find more for you all?

Or should I have just killed this thread when it started to become an arguement of common sense vs. ignorance?

Does nobody watch the news and see the stories of the people caught on survelliance footage at the station on fire?

The flash point of gasoline is -45 degrees F. Therefore at ambient temperature any time of year it is effectively boiling off to a gas and is extremely flammable.