The quest for for the pump gas record
Apr 10, 2008, 10:37 PM
#31
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you just got nuts on Dave for no reason. He is just saying that no dyno is setup exactly the same. To have a fair comparo as to who might have the highest HP it should be done on the same dyno no matter who's dyno. When he who has the record is challenged then it is an invitation to stick their nose in....
Apr 10, 2008, 11:57 PM
#32
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worth noting that Mosses Evo on here had a engine make over 830bhp i think on pump fuel. it was a Norris designs built 2.3 with a GT42RS! 
its the same engine that made over 1000bhp on their dyno.
Cheers
Chris.
its the same engine that made over 1000bhp on their dyno.
Cheers
Chris.
Apr 11, 2008, 12:10 AM
#33
There has been a lot of talk about pump gas records lately. Since we love competition so much, we just couldn't sit on the sidelines without giving the record a shot ourselves. Today we got to play a little with a project car and the results were surprising to say the least. Will be continued shortly....
DTM Built 2.0 w/ Aluminum rods
DTM Ported and Polished Cylinder Head w/ +1mm Valves
Tomei 270 Cams w/ Hydraulic Lifters
Shep Built Trans
PWR 3" FMIC
DTM Intercooler Piping
DTM BMF T4 Twin Scroll Turbo Kit
FullBlown Twin Fuel Pump Setup
Fuellab FPR
Stock lines & rail
1000cc Injectors
SparkTech COP System - Big thanks to Craig and crew for an excellent system!
AEM EMS
Pretty Blue Kevlar Timing Belt
QuarterMaster Twin Plate Clutch
Exxon 93 Pump Gas from good ol Maryland
25 PSI rock solid with NO BOOST CREEP!
Without further ado, the dyno graph:
Please note that the uncorrected numbers are 547AWHP on our low reading Mustang dyno.
DTM Built 2.0 w/ Aluminum rods
DTM Ported and Polished Cylinder Head w/ +1mm Valves
Tomei 270 Cams w/ Hydraulic Lifters
Shep Built Trans
PWR 3" FMIC
DTM Intercooler Piping
DTM BMF T4 Twin Scroll Turbo Kit
FullBlown Twin Fuel Pump Setup
Fuellab FPR
Stock lines & rail
1000cc Injectors
SparkTech COP System - Big thanks to Craig and crew for an excellent system!
AEM EMS
Pretty Blue Kevlar Timing Belt
QuarterMaster Twin Plate Clutch
Exxon 93 Pump Gas from good ol Maryland
25 PSI rock solid with NO BOOST CREEP!
Without further ado, the dyno graph:
Please note that the uncorrected numbers are 547AWHP on our low reading Mustang dyno.
You guys are getting me all excited with these pump gas #s. I wonder what my setup would do on pump gas?
Apr 11, 2008, 12:25 AM
#34
The current pump gas record is 788 whp, Al's on a Dynojet.
Peter's car made 58- on our dyno (can't remember exactly).
The Mustang Dyno has a TON of parameters that can be changed to read higher HP numbers. Nick pointed these out to me when he first had the dyno and we spoke about them. His settings were different than mine at the time. Please don't tell these guys there are no "correction factors" on a Mustand Dyno.
Nice curve, power looks good. If we are comparing Mustang Dyno numbers though it is going to have to be done on the same dyno for someone to claim THE record. Too many ways to manipulate the dyno. Ours is set up exactly how Mustand Dyno set it up, no changes to any settings what-so-ever. I've also had the head tech out here to go back over the calibrations to make sure nothing has changed over the years and thousands of dyno runs.
As a side note, I am not actually accusing anyone of anything. I am simply stating Mustang Dyno's are easily manipulated and unless the runs are on the same machine.......................
Peter's car made 58- on our dyno (can't remember exactly).
The Mustang Dyno has a TON of parameters that can be changed to read higher HP numbers. Nick pointed these out to me when he first had the dyno and we spoke about them. His settings were different than mine at the time. Please don't tell these guys there are no "correction factors" on a Mustand Dyno.
Nice curve, power looks good. If we are comparing Mustang Dyno numbers though it is going to have to be done on the same dyno for someone to claim THE record. Too many ways to manipulate the dyno. Ours is set up exactly how Mustand Dyno set it up, no changes to any settings what-so-ever. I've also had the head tech out here to go back over the calibrations to make sure nothing has changed over the years and thousands of dyno runs.
As a side note, I am not actually accusing anyone of anything. I am simply stating Mustang Dyno's are easily manipulated and unless the runs are on the same machine.......................
I'm not suggesting that you manipulated your dyno to enhance results, but rather questioning that your dyno is somehow more of a Gold Standard than any other Mustang dyno.
Apr 11, 2008, 05:39 AM
#36
U2SLO was 58X on Buschur and 620 on Dynojet.
That is not that low reading is it?
From an outside observer, what I find annoying is, the sheets from Mustang don't show what settings the dyno was using. If you look at all the dyno sheets of Dyno Dynamics in the UK, everyone is in Shootout 44 mode and you see all the parameters of the run. Intake temps, tire pressure, etc.
That is not that low reading is it?
From an outside observer, what I find annoying is, the sheets from Mustang don't show what settings the dyno was using. If you look at all the dyno sheets of Dyno Dynamics in the UK, everyone is in Shootout 44 mode and you see all the parameters of the run. Intake temps, tire pressure, etc.
Apr 11, 2008, 06:06 AM
#38
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Ya know... This could turn into a silly pissing match real easy.
I think David has more things in his life to worry about than Nick/DTM making good numbers. There is zero question that Buschur Racing makes crazy f'ing power and does it over an over again without scattering parts to the 4 winds and without spending huge sums of money over and over. Going to his shop is an investment in performance.
With that said numbers in numbers. Nick is putting out some good power numbers and is doing some things unlike some others at this point in time. I think there is without question reward to those who dare think about things in slightly different ways and as a result the community as a whole is better off.
So who has the record? Seems as if Al does. Big deal. Numbers are numbers and in my mind they are ok to give one an idea of a cars performance but are not always a true indication of real world performance. For that reason I am happy to see dyno numbers but they are rarely apples to apples and more likely misleading.
I also agree with David when he says if one were to really go for a record or to even have a good idea of how close one car is to another you have to remove variables.
As I was just on the dyno at DTM I could pretty easily roll up to Buschurs and see just how close my numbers are there to my numbers for Nick. At the very least it may give one a slightly better idea if how close the numbers are.
Oh, and if anyone in Ohio is ticked off... it's me as I don't care to see animosity drug out between folks I respect.
I think David has more things in his life to worry about than Nick/DTM making good numbers. There is zero question that Buschur Racing makes crazy f'ing power and does it over an over again without scattering parts to the 4 winds and without spending huge sums of money over and over. Going to his shop is an investment in performance.
With that said numbers in numbers. Nick is putting out some good power numbers and is doing some things unlike some others at this point in time. I think there is without question reward to those who dare think about things in slightly different ways and as a result the community as a whole is better off.
So who has the record? Seems as if Al does. Big deal. Numbers are numbers and in my mind they are ok to give one an idea of a cars performance but are not always a true indication of real world performance. For that reason I am happy to see dyno numbers but they are rarely apples to apples and more likely misleading.
I also agree with David when he says if one were to really go for a record or to even have a good idea of how close one car is to another you have to remove variables.
As I was just on the dyno at DTM I could pretty easily roll up to Buschurs and see just how close my numbers are there to my numbers for Nick. At the very least it may give one a slightly better idea if how close the numbers are.
Oh, and if anyone in Ohio is ticked off... it's me as I don't care to see animosity drug out between folks I respect.
Apr 11, 2008, 07:38 AM
#41
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His is bigger than mine!
Okay Nick, when do we start working on my MR?
Do I need one of those dual fuel pump thingies? If so, just make sure that mine's not "rainbow" in nature...I'd like mine in black!!!
Good luck with your car Joe!!!
Do I need one of those dual fuel pump thingies? If so, just make sure that mine's not "rainbow" in nature...I'd like mine in black!!!
Good luck with your car Joe!!!
Apr 11, 2008, 07:56 AM
#42
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you just got nuts on Dave for no reason. He is just saying that no dyno is setup exactly the same. To have a fair comparo as to who might have the highest HP it should be done on the same dyno no matter who's dyno. When he who has the record is challenged then it is an invitation to stick their nose in....
David, the setting on your dyno have not stayed constant since you got it. I've been on this board since you got the Mustang dyno and I know that your dyno definitely reads higher than the first year you had it. I specifically you acknowledging that at one point. For example, your RS went 124 mph in the 1/4 on 328 whp with an early iteration of the 20G turbo. No way would a car putting that number down on your dyno now pull that trap speed. Adjustments were made since you had it installed, so I'm not sure what you mean by it being "exactly how Mustang Dyno set it up," unless you are saying that a MD tech changed it after you had installed it and started using it. And if the MD factory sets it one way and certain traveling techs set it another way, then that opens up a whole other can of worms.
I'm not suggesting that you manipulated your dyno to enhance results, but rather questioning that your dyno is somehow more of a Gold Standard than any other Mustang dyno.
I'm not suggesting that you manipulated your dyno to enhance results, but rather questioning that your dyno is somehow more of a Gold Standard than any other Mustang dyno.
I agree with the whole concept of a dyno record isn't a record unless all the cars are done on the same dyno. Heck, a guy at AMS MD did a dyno run that was over 1,000whp ... and after they fixed the dyno calibrations or whatever, he was under half of that.
Nick, hella good job on things so far. Can't wait to see it at FULL POWAH!!
Apr 11, 2008, 09:02 AM
#45
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let's get some legit pump gas et's...
all the master tuners should have a shoot out bring your pump gas beasts...have an outside source bring fuel and have it.
we'll weigh the cars etc.
dyno graphs mean crap...show the tunes and the knock counts..etc.
ahh who cares anyways..
all the master tuners should have a shoot out bring your pump gas beasts...have an outside source bring fuel and have it.
we'll weigh the cars etc.
dyno graphs mean crap...show the tunes and the knock counts..etc.
ahh who cares anyways..