Reason for it was that David had claimed that the Magnus that he tested back in the day lost power and everyone called him a liar. He spent his own money to find one and prove that he was telling the truth.

At the same time others wanted to get in on the action and see how their product did on Davids dyno.

In the end if Magnus had tested their own products or it had been hashed out back when it would have not been a problem. David NEVER said that any of his testing was an indication of the current Magnus intake and if anyone wants to run a test on their current products they could do so.

I just do not see how it should be Davids dime used to pay for another companies testing.

 

Why? David Buschur sells alot of his own products, and runs a performance shop. If David truely believes a product is good/trash, he can make the choice to either sell the product or not, or install the product or not. There are plenty of manifolds out there to choose from. If he thought it was junk, (which he said he did) he could have just told Marco what he thought, and quietly discontinue selling it (which he says he did). It was from that point on, where I belive he did wrong.

Did they? Forgive me for my lack of understanding of this, but help me figure this out: Your saying that HKS called up David Buschur and said "Hey, were not sure if our Kansai Evolution manifold really performs worth a crap or not. We need you to test it, because after all, we don't know if it's any good or what." I doubt it. I doubt any manufactuer would oppose any third party testing, but I cant see how they all collectively wanted their manifolds tested. I mean, if so, they you have to accuse AMS, JMFab, HKS, ect of what you are accusing Marco of, which is not have R&D for your manifold. I don't know if this question was brought up in any of the other drama-fest threads or not.

Right, but that brings me back to my question of what is the point then? Your doing this test so the public knows what product makes power right? Not as a pissing match between you and another shop, just to provide info. So what the hell is testing this old manifold going to prove? It's junk? Even if David is wrong, and the old manifold yeilded you a 50hp gain from midrange up, what does it matter, it's obsolete. Therefore, your whole test is irrelivant. You chose what info to give the public, that benifits your cause and view. Your right, I can do my own test or shootout of any product I want, but if thats the case, what is the point of your "shootout", it's obviously not to provide me with the complete amount of information for anyone to get fair unsubjective idea of what to expect from buying any of these manifolds. Furthermore, what is the point of buying DSPort magazine if their articles are a bunch of subjective BS (or any magazine for that matter)? It's just a ****ing pissing match.

Your right, it's dosnt' have to be David's dime. But if he went through all the trouble to prove this point, and to have this huge awesome intake mani shootout, why would he not include Magnus's manifold? Yes, yes, yes, we heard it a million times, "he never claimed the current Magnus was bad or not"... but what does that have to do with doing a manifold shootout? It's a big selling manifold, and I'm more than sure alot of people would like to see how the current version stacks up against the rest. And as said before, testing an old version, whether good or not, is pointless.


And while we are on the topic, mabey you guys should think about somthing for a moment. Does ANY of this crap you buy to make your car faster/better really make a difference? Not just intake manifolds, but everything. Do you see how much hearsay and BS there is in this industry? It's a bunch of polotics and BS. Most vendors/magazine editors/manufacturers ect are all in it together to make money, and most of them know that alot of stuff on the market is junk, but nobody is going to rat each other out...... unless, they are pissed at each other. But regardless, it's not professional, and most won't do it because it will look horrible and it's often suicide for business.

You really think those camshafts are badass? Why, who said so? Who is testing them? Are they really telling you the truth? Is there anything for them to gain or lose by telling you what they really do? These are things you must think about, and think about hard, because alot of people are wasting there money on BS all the time and dont even realize it.

 

Your point has some validity.

Most people who are in business are trying to turn a profit to pay their bills.

I know whenever I buy anything the person selling it probably is trying to pay his / her bills also.

Once I was so busy I just forgot to pay my electric bill and man was I shocked to come home and no power in the house - they like to get paid also and yes they are also trying to make money.

This forum is a money maker also.

The race track makes its money.

VP race fuels makes money and so does hoosier tires etc.

I go back to my previous post if you want to know what really works take a look on what is on the fast shop cars like AMS, Buschur and Top Speed, etc etc - that is the stuff that has been proven to work and works well. People don't run crap parts when they are trying to run fast.

Al

 

all of this is great al..but lets be honest..you guys (dynoflash and buschur) are like the wife in "the truman show"..always throwing a "plug" in where ever you can....its not needed...this is a forum not a television for infomercials.....its cool to give your opinion..but dont tell people their stuff is wrong( to pull some money out of them..) because you know there are followers that will listen to what you say and jump right on the band wagon...and think whatever comes out of both of your mouths is the truth......

when in reality..you two are human..and dont have all the answers....

thank you!

 

I really wish what you think things should be like is reality, but the fact is it couldn't be farther from reality.

David and Al and all of the other vendors on here pay alot of money to be able to do what they do on here. For the most part they are not here to be friends or help share ideas, they are here to make money. Plan and simple this forum is just a form of advertisement for these vendors. If they were not here for the money they would not be shelling out the cash for the silver, gold, and platinum status.

I wish things were different but in the end that is the nature of the beast like it or not.

But you are right in the fact that there are far to many kids out there that will listen to what ever a vendor says(not just david and al) and take it for the truth.

 

I do so agree that these is a huge and pointless b!tch fest going on. I would love to see it stop. I would love to see focus on cars and performance without hard feelings but it seems that many folks who gravitate to this industry are type a, competitive and at times quick to get grumpy and take things personal. Thank god I have NEVER done anything like that.

I don't think Buschur was out to get anyone as they don't sell a sheet metal manifold. Its not my dog in the fight but as I recall David made a remark and was called out as a liar. I don't think he tends to like that sort of thing. Please note however that I am not sure of all this as I am not part of Buschur Racing nor am I a spokesman or mouthpiece for anyone other than myself. In short I have had great respect for David and count him and some others who are at odds in some ways as friends. In short I care to keep the focus where I think it should be on the issues and not the people. Please count me as a huge supporter of the Evo and the industry for which all of the above make products, some great and some not.

Now as for believing what I am told... I am not an expert on building cars. I am however pretty fair at finding folks who know their job and listening to their expertise. I think some of the above folks have a track record that speaks for itself. They produce results and make things happen in real time. Others talk a good game and post so so results and others just flap their gums and make a lot of wind. I'll happily make a call as to where I take my car and I don't fear getting burnt too bad as if I do I'll live and learn.

I'm grown. I stand to pee. I don't need things to be spoon fed to me.

 

Here is one result of using the Magnus Intake:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...=1#post5587312
Post 45
Take it for what its worth.

 

http://buschurforums.com/forum/showt...283#post117283

Post #194 for anyone who wants some factual information about everything that took place through all of this. Read it and do your own research.

 

go with something that is proven to make power id go with the ams vsr

 

Post #194 sums it up! If it were my business decision I would have come clean with the fact that the first design was not the best performer, and followed up with the opportunity to test the new design.

 

Where did you hear that we never tested our products? Our products are all tested by us or 3rd parties and show results before being brought to market.

I will ask you again where did you hear that we never tested the evo intake manifold?

 

Let me address number 6 in your little diatribe David.

I did say I would provide you with an intake manifold to test, I also told you we had a hefty backorder, and when customers got all their orders filled and I had extra I would provide you with one.

Once I read the brilliant 37 page hate thread on your web forum that was directed towards my company, not to mention our IM conversations saying that you did not say anything bad about me or my company (untrue), it was pretty clear that you were "out to get magnus" and could not be trusted. I then told you I told I would not deal with you and would not want you to test my components, because it was blatantly obvious that you were not traveling down a distinguished road.

Then you posted this on your website

"No problem. I think someone's a little pissed off that I found the original POS intake on Ebay and will using that one to test.

So, I am going to close this thread for now. When I finish the testing I will re-open it and post the results. "

This solidified my assumptions, and then the rest fell into place like I had predicted. You were angry with me, you wanted to "sink my business" (as you said on the phone) and then you got your test done. Seems to me like you already had your mind made up, and the direction of your results made up.

 

Well, you just said it for one.

Third party is not the same as doing it yourself.

Long ago I started seeing pics of blown up manifolds and never saw one dyno sheet that I thought was worth the investment. Still have not.

I also had to endure all the idiots who came to Buschurs forum talking trash... what a hoot that was. I know that was not you but hey. I don't have to be impartial all the time now do I?

I would also point out that I saw your manifold was recently used on the DTM pump gas car. I would say that once again this bump in performance was not in line with the cost... your products will not be on my car.

Have a nice day.

 

As I was part of that 37 page thread I can tell you that you are full of it dear friend.

I and many said that we simply wanted to let the numbers speak for themselves. David let the numbers speak as they did for the manifold he made himself. It was a dog with fleas and I thought it would make good numbers. It was worse than your old manifold and that from the evidence was hard to top.

Please feel free to defend your product but to accuse those of us on Daves forum of being patently anti Magnus is cr@p. Your words and actions however as well as what I have seen of your products lead me to have no interest in your efforts.

 

"us or third parties"