50trim and hta3076R dyno plots.. and notes..
Apr 30, 2008, 07:11 AM
#1
50trim and hta3076R dyno plots.. and notes..
ok,
as some people know, im a pretty big fan of the 50 trim, and I know many others arent (AMS, BR, etc..). but they have worked for us time and time again.
I have NEVER been impressed by a standard 3076R.... just never seems to make the torque I want to see, for the amount of boost we run.... whereas the 50 trim always impresses me with torque....
ok, just a little data:
stage 3 50 trim flows about 48ish lbs min... with a slightly larger turbine than the 3076R
30R flows about 52ish lbs min.... ( i dont know the details of the HTA)...
anyway...
here are the two cars:
#1: EVO IX: BR HTA 3076R with BR fmic, turboback, bigger injectors, BR ic piping STOCK CAMS (keep this in mind) run at 24psi
#2: EVO IX: Mix and match of CBRD/BlouchTurbo/Slowboy parts (hee he)... 50 trim stage 3, gsc s1 cams, dc sports turboback, bigger injectors, ets fmic, stock upper ic pipe
run at 25.8 psi...
so, admittedly not really apples to apples, but just info non-the-less.... i think had the 30R car had cams, it would have made another 20-30 depending on the cam... if it were me, id go for a cam with some good midrange....
I have another evo IX here (faust) whose 50 trim did 408whp... at 23psi (but this car had s1 cams, and a ported intake mani and tbody).... and it made more torque...
but regardless...
solid line is hta, dotted is 50trim... hp and torque scaled the same (hp on left) boost on right..
anyway... just food for thought....
cb
id like to compare the hta 35R and low boost levels (23-24psi) against the new hybrid 50 trim we are testing with a 58lbs min wheel...
as some people know, im a pretty big fan of the 50 trim, and I know many others arent (AMS, BR, etc..). but they have worked for us time and time again.
I have NEVER been impressed by a standard 3076R.... just never seems to make the torque I want to see, for the amount of boost we run.... whereas the 50 trim always impresses me with torque....
ok, just a little data:
stage 3 50 trim flows about 48ish lbs min... with a slightly larger turbine than the 3076R
30R flows about 52ish lbs min.... ( i dont know the details of the HTA)...
anyway...
here are the two cars:
#1: EVO IX: BR HTA 3076R with BR fmic, turboback, bigger injectors, BR ic piping STOCK CAMS (keep this in mind) run at 24psi
#2: EVO IX: Mix and match of CBRD/BlouchTurbo/Slowboy parts (hee he)... 50 trim stage 3, gsc s1 cams, dc sports turboback, bigger injectors, ets fmic, stock upper ic pipe
run at 25.8 psi...
so, admittedly not really apples to apples, but just info non-the-less.... i think had the 30R car had cams, it would have made another 20-30 depending on the cam... if it were me, id go for a cam with some good midrange....
I have another evo IX here (faust) whose 50 trim did 408whp... at 23psi (but this car had s1 cams, and a ported intake mani and tbody).... and it made more torque...
but regardless...
solid line is hta, dotted is 50trim... hp and torque scaled the same (hp on left) boost on right..
anyway... just food for thought....
cb
id like to compare the hta 35R and low boost levels (23-24psi) against the new hybrid 50 trim we are testing with a 58lbs min wheel...
Apr 30, 2008, 07:20 AM
#3
Nice comparison and great data.
Actually, I would think this is good for the HTA 3076. The only obvious downside is the spool compared to the 50 trim, but cams can help that a bit.
If you look at the point where the boost is the same, the HTA 3076 is making more torque/more power even with the stock cams. Most of the increased torque for the 50 trim can be attributed to the ~2 psi more boost and earlier onset.
I think both are great turbos, but this shows that the HTA 3076 is much better up top and the 50 trim is quicker spooling.
Eric
Actually, I would think this is good for the HTA 3076. The only obvious downside is the spool compared to the 50 trim, but cams can help that a bit.
If you look at the point where the boost is the same, the HTA 3076 is making more torque/more power even with the stock cams. Most of the increased torque for the 50 trim can be attributed to the ~2 psi more boost and earlier onset.
I think both are great turbos, but this shows that the HTA 3076 is much better up top and the 50 trim is quicker spooling.
Eric
Apr 30, 2008, 07:30 AM
#5
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Actually the stock cams on the IX will provide the car with the best spool up compared to the aftermarket ones. It is not until just after peak torque that the aftermarket cams will outshine the stock IX cams.
Regardless, I like to see different comparisons of different setups even if they are not apples to apples.
Regardless, I like to see different comparisons of different setups even if they are not apples to apples.
Apr 30, 2008, 07:40 AM
#6
Nice comparison and great data.
Actually, I would think this is good for the HTA 3076. The only obvious downside is the spool compared to the 50 trim, but cams can help that a bit.
If you look at the point where the boost is the same, the HTA 3076 is making more torque/more power even with the stock cams. Most of the increased torque for the 50 trim can be attributed to the ~2 psi more boost and earlier onset.
I think both are great turbos, but this shows that the HTA 3076 is much better up top and the 50 trim is quicker spooling.
Eric
Actually, I would think this is good for the HTA 3076. The only obvious downside is the spool compared to the 50 trim, but cams can help that a bit.
If you look at the point where the boost is the same, the HTA 3076 is making more torque/more power even with the stock cams. Most of the increased torque for the 50 trim can be attributed to the ~2 psi more boost and earlier onset.
I think both are great turbos, but this shows that the HTA 3076 is much better up top and the 50 trim is quicker spooling.
Eric
yeah, i just really like the 50 trim... i have some closer boost comparisons, but i need to find it....... I really like the spool of the 50 trim turbo compared to almost any out there, but a stocker, a green, or our new turbo.
the other car i did, that made 408whp on pump, was even more impressive..... but it had ported intake mani and such and i thought that was even less comparable....
just food for thought for people.
cb
Apr 30, 2008, 07:42 AM
#7
CBRD, for 1100 rpms just prior to peak torque the HTA appears to have a .5 - .6 richer AFR. The 50 trim never gets that rich during spool up. There's no doubt the 50 trim spools much quicker, but I think if the boost was the same and the AFR's were much closer during spoolup, the difference might not be quite so dramatic. Good 'data' for comparisons however. Acquiring tests like these are not always the easiest and require time that not all of us have. I think further tests on the HTA 3076 will be seen in the future as it gets compared to other popular turbos and new ones coming out. Thanks CBRD.
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Apr 30, 2008, 07:43 AM
#8
Actually the stock cams on the IX will provide the car with the best spool up compared to the aftermarket ones. It is not until just after peak torque that the aftermarket cams will outshine the stock IX cams.
Regardless, I like to see different comparisons of different setups even if they are not apples to apples.
Regardless, I like to see different comparisons of different setups even if they are not apples to apples.
the 8's are a bit different.... we've used MANY different cam combo's on the 8's, since there are sooo many available.... but, obviously with the ix's there are still more showing up all the time.
cheers
cb
Apr 30, 2008, 07:50 AM
#9
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we have had good success with the gsc's as far as just making more peak torque and not losing much on the ix's.
the 8's are a bit different.... we've used MANY different cam combo's on the 8's, since there are sooo many available.... but, obviously with the ix's there are still more showing up all the time.
cheers
cb
the 8's are a bit different.... we've used MANY different cam combo's on the 8's, since there are sooo many available.... but, obviously with the ix's there are still more showing up all the time.
cheers
cb
) of the aftermarket camshafts out there, will provide the car with better spool. Keep up the good work!
Last edited by xiaoni420; Apr 30, 2008 at 07:54 AM.
Apr 30, 2008, 07:52 AM
#10
CBRD, for 1100 rpms just prior to peak torque the HTA appears to have a .5 - .6 richer AFR. The 50 trim never gets that rich during spool up. There's no doubt the 50 trim spools much quicker, but I think if the boost was the same and the AFR's were much closer during spoolup, the difference might not be quite so dramatic. Good 'data' for comparisons however. Acquiring tests like these are not always the easiest and require time that not all of us have. I think further tests on the HTA 3076 will be seen in the future as it gets compared to other popular turbos and new ones coming out. Thanks CBRD.
ill get another 50 trim chart up, sooner or later, busy hee he..
i just like the spoolup characteristics of the 50...
the car with the hta will have cams, springs, and retainers soon, and we can respost when its done.
im really curious to try the hta35R... on pump, i think we have a new combination that should work nicely... a t-series garrett with a 58lbs min comp wheel, and stage 3 turbine.
cb
Apr 30, 2008, 07:58 AM
#11
No for sure a set of aftermarket cams can and will have the potential to make more peak torque over the stock cams. I'm just speaking in terms of the spool up characteristics between the two cams. As far as dynamic compression is concerned, the stock cams having less lift and duration than the majority (if not all, there are too many to keep up ) of the aftermarket camshafts out there, will provide the car with better spool.
Keep up the good work!
) of the aftermarket camshafts out there, will provide the car with better spool. Keep up the good work!
we just like feedback and input....
we are doing some intake manifold testing soon, and some other things... our time attack car will be the most interesting combo
cb
Apr 30, 2008, 09:09 AM
#12
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Thats my dyno sheet of the 3076 guys NO CAMS.it was road race tuned so its on the safe side..nice comparo chad ..but i will put my 30r up against that 50trim any day of the wk. i have cams going in shortly then we will se the diffrence!!
btw chad the dyno sheet i have home has more tq then the one u posted and a more hp..that run was middle of the tunning.
btw chad the dyno sheet i have home has more tq then the one u posted and a more hp..that run was middle of the tunning.
Last edited by HaVoC RR; Apr 30, 2008 at 10:15 AM.
Apr 30, 2008, 09:44 AM
#13
Thats my dyno sheet of the 3076 guys.it was road race tuned so its on the safe side..nice comparo chad ..but i will put my 30r up against that 50trim any day of the wk. i have cams going in shortly then we will se the diffrence!!
btw chad the dyno sheet i have home has more tq then the one u posted and a more hp..that run was middle of the tunning.
btw chad the dyno sheet i have home has more tq then the one u posted and a more hp..that run was middle of the tunning.
we never pick the highest number for comparisons, i have higher of the 50 trim also..
you really want to run the 50 trim ? im up for it
cant wait to get those cams, retainers/springs in...
cb