Hi everyone.

I have recently ordered the ETS T3 twin-scroll HTA35R turbo kit, very similar to the one recently posted here on the forums.

I am curious why there are people out there who think twin scroll of the HTA35 is a waste of time and money? And that the single scroll version is possibly superior.

I just want people tell me the reason why they feel this way. The factory Mitsubishi Evo turbo is twin-scroll from factory, and it produces great results for its small size.

Also every single 42R (or bigger) turbo kit I have seen and paid attention to is a twin scroll setup. I have never seen a single scroll 42R on and EVO.

Then why do some people think that middle-large size turbo’s (30R, 35R, 37R, etc) will not be effective, when it is clearly effective on small and very large turbo’s? Is it because of the housing used by some people? Or is it because its T3? Or is it because some of the vendors on here don’t want to try/test it so they are dismissing it as ineffective?

I would love to hear from everyone.

Cheers
David.

 

well I'm sure most people are just going to write this thread off and not answer you but I hope they do. I'm kind of jealous that you bought it. I called Tom and talked to him about which one to buy and for my budget and concerns he suggested the single scroll. Now I only asked him because no one had tested it out at the time of the phone call so he said that if I didn't want to wait and see then get what's already proven. I basically asked him how I could justify spending the extra money and without results he couldn't answer.

 

Now Geoff from Full-Race will swear by TwinScroll technology and I'm not one to argue with someone who knows things like VE-Volumetric Effeciency and EGP-Exhaust Gas Pulses. He also doesn't believe in the HTA philosophy either. He believes that the HTA in theory isn't as efficient as the regular 35r.

 

Now I try to look at some of the HARD numbers out there and realize whos having the best performance gains......most power......fastest E.T.'s and none of them have twinscroll. You ask a guy like David Buschur and he doesn't sound like he'll ever do twinscroll. Along with Sean Ivey....he told me that he's not a big fan of the TwinScroll. Then you talk to Geoff and he seems to think the opposite, he thinks in due time that alot more shops will start to use TwinScroll. It's a tough call. I just try to educate myself the best that I can and make a decision from there.

 

i remenber a few years back people not liking the idea of dual ball bearing turbos. some shops would have nothing to do with them. over time people see the benifits, and they are only very small ones at that, and might start to change.

either way i think prople are making a big deal out of it all. yes you might get another 10bhp with one setup and the other might spool your turbo 100rpm sooner, but will you ever notice that on the street, or even at the track??

basically go with whatever you want or like. if its a GT35R its going to be a killer kit if ETS are building it, if its go HTA or Twin scroll or both! lol

me personally...i like the idea of twin scroll. it works for manufactures of production cars so why wouldn't it work for the performance market?? also alot of the BIG BHP stuff i wish i had is using twinscroll so that has its effect on me to.

Agian this is only MY opinion, if you dont like the idea or someone you look upto isn't runnin it then you dont have to. its going to be a fast car either way.

Chris.

 

^
AMS Drag EVO VIII uses a twin scroll 42R. It runs 8.56 and 171mph.

And I think David Buschur said his black drag EVO VIII uses twin scroll with a single wastegate and it runs 8.88 and 172mph. (I could be wrong here.)

Some really really good posts so far.

I just guess if Mitsubishi went twin scroll from the factory, its has to have some sort of benifit or they would have saved money and went single.

Time will tell. Exciting times indeed.

 

its not just Mitsubishi, its about every single car company out there! they are all doing it and have done for some time.

having siad that on a modded Evo thats going to be used on the road, are you ever really going to beable to see the differance??? hehe

Chris.

 

I probabbly wont notice the difference. By hey, I dont mind trying something different. I'm pretty sure I will have the only twin scroll HTA35R in Australia so thats cool.

At the end of the day, just because it looks so hot i wont be upset if it only performs similar to the single scroll HTA35R

 

If i remember correctly there was some testing done ( I forgot who did it) but they found that twin scroll did improve spool but it made less power overall as the housing was more restrictive and did not allow as much overall air flow.

 

All i want to see is a back to back test that proves the TS can hang with the single entry power wise. Every time there is some TS results theres allways some excuse about too small hotside etc. Theres no doubting the TS spools faster and is nicer to drive, we just want to see them flow up top too.

 

I remember reading something similar to that. I think you would have to consider the purpose of you car, and weigh the benefits of the two type of turbos.

 

How much up top are we really talking thoough? I think losing 10-20hp near redline is far outweighed by several hundred rpm faster spool, if that's what the loss would be. If its 30+ whp less in usable ranges, that's a different story

 

We have played with a few T3 twin scroll set-ups and have decided to sell what we currently offer since we feel it performs the best just the way it is. I’m not one to jump on the latest bandwagon or trend to sell parts but rather try to offer parts that are proven to work and work well. Sometimes I feel like I am the jackass since most of our money is made on labor and the Twin Scroll units do take a bit more labor to produce. Keep this in mind as one of the companies currently selling the Twin Scroll units were very vocal in speaking out against them just a few years ago. You can look at it two ways. Have they found new parts to make these TS units work well? Or is it a steam engine to propel their latest marketing scheme into public eyes to make a bunch of extra money? As a manufacturer, producing solid data to show these supposed gains would be a VERY key point in my marketing campaign and would be the first thing that would have been presented to the public to get ahead of the competition while you can. With the extreme lack of data to back up the manufacturers claims it has to make you wonder.

In a T3 platform with smaller sized turbos (gt30 - gt35), on an engine of this size, I have not seen any noticeable gain or benefit in the few combinations that we have put together. With as much kept the same as possible (ie. primary diameter) we have noticed some decreased spool time with them but that was negated by a loss, sometimes a significant loss depending on turbine choice, in top end power. Not an acceptable trade off, in my opinion, as we could always reduce the size of the open inlet turbine housing and see similar results.

The biggest gains that I have seen in decreasing spool time and increasing transient response is simply by reducing the primary size of the header. With some simple on road tests with a ~500hp car we have seen some pretty significant decreases in spool time and moving torque peak down in RPM’s quite a bit. The use of pipe elbows in our production headers makes primary sizing somewhat limited and I do not feel that the smaller pipe size is ideal by any means. But there are a niche of people out there whose purpose it will fit very nicely. I do not want to start blabbing that by reducing primary size you are going to see significant gains as I do not have any rock hard data numbers YET. After the tax season rush is over I will finish up some of these test pieces and off to a brake dyno they will be going for some solid numbers. Hopefully then we will have some solid data to compare our standard T3 header to the small runner t3 header. And with any luck we will be able to compare those to some twin scroll data if there is any by then.

Am I saying that twin scroll doesn’t work? No, but currently I am not a fan of it with the smaller turbos. Turbocharging technology is in its infancy and constantly evolving for the better and in a couple years time we may have parts that work significantly better for this application. With the current parts available, in and outside the US, I do not feel it is the best choice and the performance does not add up.

 

Wow

Thank you Mr. Shearer for your valuable comments.

Regardless of whether it works or not, the fact marketing is coming before testing for some companies is pretty scandalous in my view. It's like what kind of rink a dink operation can't take the time to bolt the product on a car and do a comparison.

 

Does twin scroll work, yes... lol there's a ton of data that supports this, just look to OEM turbo applications and see what's been going on in this area for a long time now...

Do you need to run a larger hotside than you would in a comparable single scroll kit, yes - just the nature of the application. Improvements in boost threshold and throttle response are the benefits of twin scroll...

Anyone that debates these facts hasn't had the opportunity to review the data, doesn't have any in depth experience with twin scroll setups, or is just down playing the setup until they have product in the market place...

my .02