Any results or times from the shoot out
May 27, 2008, 07:30 PM
#481
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Its amazing that Sheps car as it sits runs almost the same MPH as brents 3/4 chassis with gforce tranny, modified car.. I wouldnt discredit anything about sheps car simply cause of a rearend.. 4cyl cars going 6.9 and 7.7 with a 4g63 is absolutely amazing and has not been done by any other other 4cyl in the WORLD.. We should be proud to have 4g63's and not k20's.. LOL
Ill guarantee the black car still runs 8.99 or better with a 35r hta on it.. if you can go 9.20 in the RS which i am sure it will happen. Then no doubt the black car would run 8's @ low 160's.. Not sure if its worth your time to do but it would be fun to see nevertheless!!
Ill guarantee the black car still runs 8.99 or better with a 35r hta on it.. if you can go 9.20 in the RS which i am sure it will happen. Then no doubt the black car would run 8's @ low 160's.. Not sure if its worth your time to do but it would be fun to see nevertheless!!
May 27, 2008, 07:30 PM
#482
May 27, 2008, 07:33 PM
#483
The car was not hacked apart whatsoever to put the rear end into Johns car. It wasn't a back half and IMO isn't any different than putting a non-OEM IRS(ie 300gt Rear end) unit in it. It utilized the factory strut mounts and the tires were contained within the factory wheel wells. The latest rounds of mods that John has chosen to do were for safety and to meet the rules of competition for the ET the car is capable of producing.
Slowing the car down off the launch would not have completely eliminated the rear end breakage problem as the car was still breaking parts AFTER it was already moving. This is drag racing, you can't build a good 1/4 mile car if you have to sacrifice the most vital part of getting good ET's. If that had to be done then why bother drag racing we could just join the rest of the homo's out there doing highway roll races. No thanks.
While in theory the solid rear should be a performance advantage we still have not seen the light of it. The car pulled 1.2 60's on the IRS rear end and has managed the same with the solid axle. Reliability and safety was the key and the light has been seen from that perspective. Until you've strapped yourself into a 7 second 190+mph car you can not fathom how nerve racking it is to not know what the car is going to do during the next pass.
Slowing the car down off the launch would not have completely eliminated the rear end breakage problem as the car was still breaking parts AFTER it was already moving. This is drag racing, you can't build a good 1/4 mile car if you have to sacrifice the most vital part of getting good ET's. If that had to be done then why bother drag racing we could just join the rest of the homo's out there doing highway roll races. No thanks.
While in theory the solid rear should be a performance advantage we still have not seen the light of it. The car pulled 1.2 60's on the IRS rear end and has managed the same with the solid axle. Reliability and safety was the key and the light has been seen from that perspective. Until you've strapped yourself into a 7 second 190+mph car you can not fathom how nerve racking it is to not know what the car is going to do during the next pass.
That right there in itself is reason enough to do anything you have to do to feel comfortable in the car.. I have watched johns videos time and time again and to watch him steer the wheel 180+ degrees up top in 4th gear to keep it straight has to be pretty nerve racking.. his 1/8th mile rivals most 1/4 mile trap speeds.. LOL
btw.. nice to see some big names chime in here!!
May 27, 2008, 07:33 PM
#484
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This is a totally illogical assertion
What matters is that my car weighs in over 3100 lbs when I am ready to take a pass down the track with my full exhuast which was not in the car this weekend
I saw Dan B's car at the shootout last year and it is a straight out gutted shell - I could make lists of what is in and what is not in but who cares
At the end of the day results speak louder than words - NO excuses
I have been in the 9's with my Evo now 4 years in a row
Al
What matters is that my car weighs in over 3100 lbs when I am ready to take a pass down the track with my full exhuast which was not in the car this weekend
I saw Dan B's car at the shootout last year and it is a straight out gutted shell - I could make lists of what is in and what is not in but who cares
At the end of the day results speak louder than words - NO excuses
I have been in the 9's with my Evo now 4 years in a row
Al
As you said Al, no excuses, As Dan stated in his post, his car was built for one purpose and that is to go fast and win races and be competitive with the rest of the class..
Honestly, why is it such a big deal to people about what cars weigh? If it runs good numbers and holds together, that should be the impressive part at the end of the day, period! But when you start to make the car into a tin car to the point of it looking like pure crap and completely unsafe, then that's a different story of it's own. There is a right way of doing it and a wrong way of doing it. Dave's car is done the right way, Dan's car is done the right way. My car is light as well being at 2700lbs with me in it, but guess what, it's still fast with class baby! And it still has carpet
Have a look.
On a side Note Al, I am sorry to hear about your motor, with your enthusiasm and dedication your car will be back up and going in no time! Keep up the hard work.
May 27, 2008, 07:38 PM
#485
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Originally Posted by 94AWDcoupe View Post
I watched shepard go faster and faster. I lost interest when I saw the american rear end in the car. no longer a mitsu platform.
Thanks for taking the time to repond, John. But it doesnt change my opinion at all. The bottom line is you changed the talon platform by installing an american rear end in a foreign car. and it wasnt even IRS. you had to hack the back of the car completely to have it installed. That is simply not pushing the limits of a platform. Its called changing it. I would have liked to see you continue to go faster and faster on the stock platform. If it meant limiting the car to 1.4 60fts to keep the rear end in one piece , so be it. that could have been done and you could have pushed the stock parts faster.
The solid is not a performance enhancing mod it is a reliability mod.
I would have to disagree with that statement. The solid rear end is far more capable of lower 60fts. That most definitely enhances the performance.
I watched shepard go faster and faster. I lost interest when I saw the american rear end in the car. no longer a mitsu platform.
Thanks for taking the time to repond, John. But it doesnt change my opinion at all. The bottom line is you changed the talon platform by installing an american rear end in a foreign car. and it wasnt even IRS. you had to hack the back of the car completely to have it installed. That is simply not pushing the limits of a platform. Its called changing it. I would have liked to see you continue to go faster and faster on the stock platform. If it meant limiting the car to 1.4 60fts to keep the rear end in one piece , so be it. that could have been done and you could have pushed the stock parts faster.
The solid is not a performance enhancing mod it is a reliability mod.
I would have to disagree with that statement. The solid rear end is far more capable of lower 60fts. That most definitely enhances the performance.
The solid rear end is definately more of a reliability deal then a performance deal. I figured out his car had a solid rear end in it, at the Nopi finals in Norwalk in 06. Just happened to notice the long wheel studs. First thing I thought was what kind of elaborate bub did he have to have made to have the appropriate studs for that performance. Then it dawned on me to look under, since im not exactly a stranger to backhalved Mitsus. It was my understanding then that it had not been done to long at this point, and I do not think he has picked up a significant amount of et from this.
The principle behind a 4 link or ladder bar is, to use the natural upward rotation of the solid rearend, to transfer the weight of the car on to the rear wheels. I am not sure as the only backhalved Mitsu I have helped campaign was rwd, (also Gary Reese built) but this principle doenst seem like it would work very well for an awd car.
Not that it doesnt happen in a stock evo, but the transfering of weight off the front axles would be exaggerated with set up. Atleast you would think. So thats essentially forcing all the power to a smaller tire surface area.
The second problem with that is what Jake brought up. That is one of the worse things you could do to these transmissions.
With all that said, im sure David and John arent losing sleep over it, but Im not saying what they did was a bad idea. Im just pointing out that its nothing like making it a fullout drag car. They are going into territories of chassis tuning that is uncharted.
Like I said about Buschurs car in the poll thread, Shepherds car serves a purpose other than being the fastest awd dsm. One being to promote his trans business. He is building transmissions that are holding up to more power than the rest of the drivetrain. Unlike Buschur's evo he also races it in a sanctioned racing series. One in which he is aloud to do what he has done, with a weight penalty. You got to do what ever you can within to the rules to win. Period.
Lastly not only is it more reliable, it is safer. These guys have mouths to feed.
Sorry if I out words in to anyones mouth that didnt want them.
Last edited by jimib; May 27, 2008 at 08:01 PM.
May 27, 2008, 07:40 PM
#486
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This is a totally illogical assertion
What matters is that my car weighs in over 3100 lbs when I am ready to take a pass down the track with my full exhuast which was not in the car this weekend
I saw Dan B's car at the shootout last year and it is a straight out gutted shell - I could make lists of what is in and what is not in but who cares
At the end of the day results speak louder than words - NO excuses
I have been in the 9's with my Evo now 4 years in a row
Al
What matters is that my car weighs in over 3100 lbs when I am ready to take a pass down the track with my full exhuast which was not in the car this weekend
I saw Dan B's car at the shootout last year and it is a straight out gutted shell - I could make lists of what is in and what is not in but who cares
At the end of the day results speak louder than words - NO excuses
I have been in the 9's with my Evo now 4 years in a row
Al
Dan's car at the shootout was in prep for Pro4 or Hotrod for the 08 season as he already mentioned. Thats a whole new ballgame at that point. As you and many others know, there is a point of no return on going full drag car, Dan decided to go that route. IMHO his drag car is one of the most tastefully done to date
Last edited by 1slowevo; May 27, 2008 at 08:20 PM.
May 27, 2008, 07:46 PM
#489
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I love keeping it clean, but getting it as light as can be to where I don't have to make it look like crap. I refuse to do that to this car.Oh I know it's no light weight thats for sure! I'm taking little things out here and there, but refuse to cut the **** out of the car. I'm sure now the car weighs 2670 with me in now after some of the weight I have taken out of it this past couple of days, I need to get it back on the corner scales and see where it sits. I will be happy at 2670lbs with me in it full race weight.
We shall see soon.
May 27, 2008, 07:46 PM
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As you said Al, no excuses, As Dan stated in his post, his car was built for one purpose and that is to go fast and win races and be competitive with the rest of the class..
Honestly, why is it such a big deal to people about what cars weigh? If it runs good numbers and holds together, that should be the impressive part at the end of the day, period! But when you start to make the car into a tin car to the point of it looking like pure crap and completely unsafe, then that's a different story of it's own. There is a right way of doing it and a wrong way of doing it. Dave's car is done the right way, Dan's car is done the right way. My car is light as well being at 2700lbs with me in it, but guess what, it's still fast with class baby! And it still has carpet
Have a look.
On a side Note Al, I am sorry to hear about your motor, with your enthusiasm and dedication your car will be back up and going in no time! Keep up the hard work.
Honestly, why is it such a big deal to people about what cars weigh? If it runs good numbers and holds together, that should be the impressive part at the end of the day, period! But when you start to make the car into a tin car to the point of it looking like pure crap and completely unsafe, then that's a different story of it's own. There is a right way of doing it and a wrong way of doing it. Dave's car is done the right way, Dan's car is done the right way. My car is light as well being at 2700lbs with me in it, but guess what, it's still fast with class baby! And it still has carpet
Have a look.
On a side Note Al, I am sorry to hear about your motor, with your enthusiasm and dedication your car will be back up and going in no time! Keep up the hard work.
May 27, 2008, 07:53 PM
#492
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I have reached some conclusions
1 - Running 250 HP per hole in a 4 banger is going to test your parts to the edge. There IS a point when parts can start to break for no other reason than you are making a **** load of power.
2 - Running a huge turbo makes for a lot of lag time between shifts and you need to make up more and more power to close the gap on the smaller turbos that respond faster.
3- The lighter you can make a car the faster and the more reliable it will be.
As I progress in this insanity I call a hobby I am learning more and more.
Fast and reliable = not cheap.
May 27, 2008, 08:00 PM
#493
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As you said Al, no excuses, As Dan stated in his post, his car was built for one purpose and that is to go fast and win races and be competitive with the rest of the class..
Honestly, why is it such a big deal to people about what cars weigh? If it runs good numbers and holds together, that should be the impressive part at the end of the day, period! But when you start to make the car into a tin car to the point of it looking like pure crap and completely unsafe, then that's a different story of it's own. There is a right way of doing it and a wrong way of doing it. Dave's car is done the right way, Dan's car is done the right way. My car is light as well being at 2700lbs with me in it, but guess what, it's still fast with class baby! And it still has carpet
Have a look.
Honestly, why is it such a big deal to people about what cars weigh? If it runs good numbers and holds together, that should be the impressive part at the end of the day, period! But when you start to make the car into a tin car to the point of it looking like pure crap and completely unsafe, then that's a different story of it's own. There is a right way of doing it and a wrong way of doing it. Dave's car is done the right way, Dan's car is done the right way. My car is light as well being at 2700lbs with me in it, but guess what, it's still fast with class baby! And it still has carpet
Have a look.
Oh the Pro Stok Cavy dash! It actually looks decent in there. It matches up with the doorpads pretty nicely. How much weight do you think you saved over the stock 1g dash pad?
May 27, 2008, 08:05 PM
#494
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3 zues buttons and it pulls right out in 30 seconds exposing the ecu, msd, ect.I would say between all the brackets, wiring, heater ducts, dash, ect that has to do with the stock dash, I lost a total of 45-50lbs, maybe more. I do know everything I did to the car this season vs last season I lost a total of 250lbs.