New FP White turbo
Jul 6, 2008, 04:21 PM
#422
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OK, just to stop the whining a bit let's get back to Robert's car:
"Completely stock engine with exception of some early prototype FP4R cams, head studs. BR IC and lower IC pipe, STOCK upper IC pipes. STOCK turbo inlet hose w/85mm MAF. M800. Works O2 hsg and 3" exhaust. Stock drivetrain and street tires, no lightened components. Oh, and an Exedy twin disc, because Robert has a retarded left foot.
***** boost and ***** timing (no knock control), its a Joe Everybody car, not a ringer."
So it seems that the original dyno car is indeed your basic/classic bolt on car that everybody's so interested in; Cams + IC piping + head studs + full 3 inch turboback.
That's all good, because that's basically what I (and alot of average Joes) run...no fancy headers + manifolds + standalone engine management systems.
Assuming a couple of other things just to be on the safe side:
1. The tune was optimized for this setup
2. Stright pump gas
3. I'm assuming it's an 9 and not an 8 too just to be safe
So it seems like a generally reasonable result for Joe Average to expect (once tuned for the new blower) is 375whp @ 6750 rpms and 340lb/ft @ 4200rpms on a Dynojet (going by the original dno sheet).
I'm glad 9sec9 took the time to push this thing to its limits, now I hope we can do what was suggested and try to guesstimate where we'd each fall between 9sec9's figures and the above ones.
Personally I'd expect probably another 15hp or so over the original results given that I have a few additional goodies - racing suction intake, full IC piping, ported and polished head, cat delete and 98 octane available locally at the pump - and given that I'd add injectors, a fuel rail and a good retune in addition to the White of course - but that's just me. Otherwise I'm plain missionary like most folks - happy to stay at around 25psi max and no fancy additives etc.
Yeah sure we'd all love a magic bullet instant 400whp bolt-me on turbo upgrade but I somehow think that'll be pushing it on the White for many Joe Averages.
Personally I see NOTHING wrong with a solid, bona fide 370-385whp combined with *excellent* response, little boost taper, very little or no surging etc. and which can happily run in that power range day in and day out all year round since the turbo's well within its efficiency range. That's still a very nice gain for me and that's where my exppectations will be set in any case.
And not to forget that in the real world it'll likely FEEL faster than a similar (Green) setup simply because the White will get up and go that much sooner (nevermind that the Green will still probably make better actual numbers).
Having said that I'm pretty confident that we'll see a few guys with every bolt on under the sun, uprated fuel systems, aggressive boost and *a good tune* manage to barely crack 400whp on pump on the White though.
"Completely stock engine with exception of some early prototype FP4R cams, head studs. BR IC and lower IC pipe, STOCK upper IC pipes. STOCK turbo inlet hose w/85mm MAF. M800. Works O2 hsg and 3" exhaust. Stock drivetrain and street tires, no lightened components. Oh, and an Exedy twin disc, because Robert has a retarded left foot.
***** boost and ***** timing (no knock control), its a Joe Everybody car, not a ringer."
So it seems that the original dyno car is indeed your basic/classic bolt on car that everybody's so interested in; Cams + IC piping + head studs + full 3 inch turboback.
That's all good, because that's basically what I (and alot of average Joes) run...no fancy headers + manifolds + standalone engine management systems.
Assuming a couple of other things just to be on the safe side:
1. The tune was optimized for this setup
2. Stright pump gas
3. I'm assuming it's an 9 and not an 8 too just to be safe
So it seems like a generally reasonable result for Joe Average to expect (once tuned for the new blower) is 375whp @ 6750 rpms and 340lb/ft @ 4200rpms on a Dynojet (going by the original dno sheet).
I'm glad 9sec9 took the time to push this thing to its limits, now I hope we can do what was suggested and try to guesstimate where we'd each fall between 9sec9's figures and the above ones.
Personally I'd expect probably another 15hp or so over the original results given that I have a few additional goodies - racing suction intake, full IC piping, ported and polished head, cat delete and 98 octane available locally at the pump - and given that I'd add injectors, a fuel rail and a good retune in addition to the White of course - but that's just me. Otherwise I'm plain missionary like most folks - happy to stay at around 25psi max and no fancy additives etc.
Yeah sure we'd all love a magic bullet instant 400whp bolt-me on turbo upgrade but I somehow think that'll be pushing it on the White for many Joe Averages.
Personally I see NOTHING wrong with a solid, bona fide 370-385whp combined with *excellent* response, little boost taper, very little or no surging etc. and which can happily run in that power range day in and day out all year round since the turbo's well within its efficiency range. That's still a very nice gain for me and that's where my exppectations will be set in any case.
And not to forget that in the real world it'll likely FEEL faster than a similar (Green) setup simply because the White will get up and go that much sooner (nevermind that the Green will still probably make better actual numbers).
Having said that I'm pretty confident that we'll see a few guys with every bolt on under the sun, uprated fuel systems, aggressive boost and *a good tune* manage to barely crack 400whp on pump on the White though.
Last edited by theshadow; Jul 6, 2008 at 04:42 PM.
Jul 6, 2008, 06:52 PM
#423
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importjake00, Mike at AWD Motorsports will have 4 late in the week. Yes it's all 9sec9's fault were doing this 
all his ideas = no sleep 
. It was a great idea, I had overlooked the street market in search of all out power. He brought me back to reality so a big thanks goes to him 
. Indy
all his ideas = no sleep . It was a great idea, I had overlooked the street market in search of all out power. He brought me back to reality so a big thanks goes to him . IndyI cant afford to be fixing things anytime soon..
Jul 6, 2008, 07:30 PM
#425
Evolving Member
Oh, BTW, there is only 1 company who has put any faith in the EVO bolt-on market to spend R&D money on reverse rotation turbine wheels.
Anybody can whittle out or copy an existing compressor wheel in a short period of time.
Take a look around.
It takes YEARS and a sh1tp0tfull of money to make qualified molds and make turbine wheels.
The best is yet to come.
Anybody can whittle out or copy an existing compressor wheel in a short period of time.
Take a look around.
It takes YEARS and a sh1tp0tfull of money to make qualified molds and make turbine wheels.
The best is yet to come.
direction and is made for us. But we have neither. So don't forget about us man, we are where you came from. Gary
Jul 6, 2008, 08:21 PM
#428
I wonder who will be the first to hit 400whp with this turbo on a stock block, stock head (cams and springs are ok), pump gas, and stock ecu?
**IF somebody does make the magical 400whp this turbo will def make its mark in the Evo Community. It will COMPLETELY END the number one question, "what do I need to make 400whp?"
Im subscribed...
**IF somebody does make the magical 400whp this turbo will def make its mark in the Evo Community. It will COMPLETELY END the number one question, "what do I need to make 400whp?"
Im subscribed...
Jul 6, 2008, 09:13 PM
#430
cuz everyone is looking for the magic turbo to give them stock or better spool and 400hp and bolt on replacement and running 23-25psi. it's like the holy grail of the daily driver turbo. I've seen countless evos run way over 400hp with a green and meth. Hell just meth alone. But no meth and zero loss of spool? Holy Grail man. Plus buying the Green just to run lower boost pressures on pump is expensive and kind of a waste.
Jul 6, 2008, 09:46 PM
#431
Evolving Member
I'm talking about making a normal rotation version of the "700cfm 69-5 billet compressor wheel" used in the Evo Green, and possibly a normal rotation version of the "enlarged 11 blade turbine wheel" used in the Evo Green.
For the rest of the parts needed (housings and bearing section) they could probably be the same parts used in the DSM TD06SL2-20G. This would be a single scroll hot side, unlike the Evo green, but still should be a plenty cool turbo. Maybe the TD06SL2 turbine wheel would be the one to use, because it is already proven with single scroll turbine housings, I don't know.
What do you think GrocMax?
Gary
Jul 6, 2008, 10:02 PM
#432
cuz everyone is looking for the magic turbo to give them stock or better spool and 400hp and bolt on replacement and running 23-25psi. it's like the holy grail of the daily driver turbo. I've seen countless evos run way over 400hp with a green and meth. Hell just meth alone. But no meth and zero loss of spool? Holy Grail man. Plus buying the Green just to run lower boost pressures on pump is expensive and kind of a waste.
FPGreen is the solid plot, stock Evo 9 turbo is the dotted plot, 3rd gear.
Jul 6, 2008, 10:43 PM
#434
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There are a lot of variables involved but, when they say that the new White spools "as well as stock", what exactly are they refering to? I suppose they mean that the FP White turbo can be made to spool as quickly as a factory IX turbo.
Now, if as you say, an EvoGreen/10.5 can be made to spoolup as quickly as a IX turbo, then it would follow that the Green's spoolup is proportional to the new White's rate of spool.
If all variables are kept equal it is hard for me to accept the thought of proportionality of spool in this particular case.
Now, if as you say, an EvoGreen/10.5 can be made to spoolup as quickly as a IX turbo, then it would follow that the Green's spoolup is proportional to the new White's rate of spool.
If all variables are kept equal it is hard for me to accept the thought of proportionality of spool in this particular case.
Jul 6, 2008, 11:09 PM
#435
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Awesome Upgrade, which cams compliment it?
Thanks to 9sec9 for testing this new combo and thanks to FP and Indy EVO for doing the R&D on the turbo and IM! For my daily driver needs (with maybe an annual trip to the drag strip), the FP White and Indy EVO IM yield solid "streetable" gains at a reasonable price. Any advice on which EVO IX cams (HKS 272s, Kelford 272s, FPR4Rs..etc) will work best "on the street" with the White and Indy Evo IM?? I don't care about peak numbers; I'm looking for decent street manners with the most "area under the curve".