New FP White turbo
Jul 11, 2008, 04:10 PM
#556
Is it really that hard to believe...... the stock 9 turbo is pretty darn good.
The WHITE has some additional top end but it sure as hell isn't worth $600 to me.
One thing for sure..... Razorlab isn't biased he continually posts excellent information.
The WHITE has some additional top end but it sure as hell isn't worth $600 to me.
One thing for sure..... Razorlab isn't biased he continually posts excellent information.
Sep 19, 2008, 08:47 AM
#557
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Well - so to be fair an FP White might not be the best UPGRADE from an IX turbo but if you have a stock turbo that's about to crap out (like I do) and wanat something a little better for a little more money than a straight IX replacement turbo then it still seems like a fair deal actually. The only think I've really not liked about the stocker is the way it tapers off at the high end - if the White would fix that somewhat (using the FP WGA) then I'd probably be quite happy with a White actually.
800 for a stock IX vs. 1200 or so for the White...400 difference but you could at least get an upgraded actuator, ceramic coating and porting etc.without damaging the power delivery or spool characteristics at all it seems.
Really split between just going with a White and (hopefully) *slightly* enhancing the car's power delivery when my stock turbo goes PLUNK and spending more and going for an FP Red and getting alot more power (keeping in mind that the "more" would have to include uprated injectors etc.).
What worries me about going for big power upgrades is the possibility of maybe not liking the way the "new car "drives. I'm really not a fan of lag - I think the way the stock turbo reacts is great for the twisty driving I do, it's just the taper of the stock turbo that bugs me a bit.
Anyone seen more FPWhite reults they could link up here?
800 for a stock IX vs. 1200 or so for the White...400 difference but you could at least get an upgraded actuator, ceramic coating and porting etc.without damaging the power delivery or spool characteristics at all it seems.
Really split between just going with a White and (hopefully) *slightly* enhancing the car's power delivery when my stock turbo goes PLUNK and spending more and going for an FP Red and getting alot more power (keeping in mind that the "more" would have to include uprated injectors etc.).
What worries me about going for big power upgrades is the possibility of maybe not liking the way the "new car "drives. I'm really not a fan of lag - I think the way the stock turbo reacts is great for the twisty driving I do, it's just the taper of the stock turbo that bugs me a bit.
Anyone seen more FPWhite reults they could link up here?
Last edited by theshadow; Sep 19, 2008 at 08:52 AM.
Sep 19, 2008, 09:08 AM
#558
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I don't have any dyno sheets to post up, but can give you some evidence of the higher top end.
I race my E85 powered Evo in hillclimbs, and this year our schedule had two races at the same location (startline ~9,000 feet), one in June, one in September.
In Denver at 5,000 feet, the stock IX turbo was set to spike towards 26psi and it would fall off a bit as the revs climbed. I made no changes to the setup, and we struggled to get the boost dialed in. It would spike to 22psi, and fall immediately to 15psi. After some tweaking of the MBC, I was able to get it to spike to 22psi, and hold ~20psi. I also found myself shifting at 6,500rpm as the turbo was falling off hard.
In mid July I installed a FP White and PPI ported exhaust manifold. I went from 386hp/382tq to 398hp/390tq, at the same boost levels, ~26-27psi.
Fast forward to our last event in mid September, and on the same course, with ambient temps within 10 degrees, the FP White was able to hold ~24psi. I was able to rev the car out a bit more, most times shifting around or slightly above 7,000rpm.
My conclusion is: if you're looking for a big power jump, look to the FP Green or FP Red if you want to stay "stock-frame" turbo. If you're looking for a little more up top with the same spool, the FP White is probably right up your alley.
I have in-car footage of the two events, though one is in-car, and the other is roof-cam. Both have the mic in the same place, so you might be able to hear the difference in how much the car is getting revved out.
Gold Camp I Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upnRfqLf3NU
Gold Camp II Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNJU_lJqd40
Dave
I race my E85 powered Evo in hillclimbs, and this year our schedule had two races at the same location (startline ~9,000 feet), one in June, one in September.
In Denver at 5,000 feet, the stock IX turbo was set to spike towards 26psi and it would fall off a bit as the revs climbed. I made no changes to the setup, and we struggled to get the boost dialed in. It would spike to 22psi, and fall immediately to 15psi. After some tweaking of the MBC, I was able to get it to spike to 22psi, and hold ~20psi. I also found myself shifting at 6,500rpm as the turbo was falling off hard.
In mid July I installed a FP White and PPI ported exhaust manifold. I went from 386hp/382tq to 398hp/390tq, at the same boost levels, ~26-27psi.
Fast forward to our last event in mid September, and on the same course, with ambient temps within 10 degrees, the FP White was able to hold ~24psi. I was able to rev the car out a bit more, most times shifting around or slightly above 7,000rpm.
My conclusion is: if you're looking for a big power jump, look to the FP Green or FP Red if you want to stay "stock-frame" turbo. If you're looking for a little more up top with the same spool, the FP White is probably right up your alley.
I have in-car footage of the two events, though one is in-car, and the other is roof-cam. Both have the mic in the same place, so you might be able to hear the difference in how much the car is getting revved out.
Gold Camp I Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upnRfqLf3NU
Gold Camp II Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNJU_lJqd40
Dave
Sep 19, 2008, 09:23 AM
#560
I personally have a White HTA on my personal car and i can defenetly feel the difference specially now that is cooling down im having fun haha but with the little time i have to work on the car i havent had a chance to take it to the dyno just yet..
Sep 19, 2008, 10:18 AM
#563
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What I miss most about the EVOWhite (now on the EVORed) is the part throttle spool up. The tail happy nature of the EVOWhite always put a smile on my face, and for daily use short shifting at 6500 or so and 22psi it is just too much fun. Of course full throttle bonsai runs on desolate rural roads far away from innocent bystanders and other "hazards" the EVORed can't be beat.
Already got a EVO9 turbo on the car? Prolly not going to choose a EVOWhite unless you just need less thermal load on the FMIC during track sessions or extended stages rally.
Already got a EVO9 turbo on the car? Prolly not going to choose a EVOWhite unless you just need less thermal load on the FMIC during track sessions or extended stages rally.
Sep 19, 2008, 11:09 AM
#564
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Good feedback on this turbo, thanks, keep it coming {thumbsup}
Definitely the frontrunner to replace my stock IX turbo when she blows - this and the CBRD BBK perhaps, which is currently in vapourware status and not in the wild yet
Even still, I do really like the idea of being able to just stick on a White, do a mild retune and enjoy the car as it, just with a little "extra".
I drove a car with a 50trim on it once while it was being road tuned and the lag was a BIG turnoff for me - sure it made great power but doing all those 3rd gear WOT runs really made the lag hit home to the point where I just couldn't imagine how someone would enjoy daily driving such a car.
Driven against a car with a full 3076 kit on as well and same thing - laggy! He could only really creep up and away from me at very high rpms in the real world where his turbo was strongest and mine was weakest (on track of course haha).
I know turbos like the Green and Red spool lots quicker than a 50trim and with the right mods that you can greatly offset lag (have ridden in one particularly insane 2.3 stroker, Green equipped AutoX car that was just nuts in terms of power and response) but that process can be complex and expensive once you add in all the "extras".
In the end, I'm still liking the notion of as-stock-like-spool as possible with a nice power/torque curve. I do prefer curves in general though so I'm a bit biased haha
Just my 2c.
PS Robert, good point about less thermal loads...that is something I DO consider, especially given where I live!
Again, keep the Whte reviews comin' ppl!
Definitely the frontrunner to replace my stock IX turbo when she blows - this and the CBRD BBK perhaps, which is currently in vapourware status and not in the wild yet
Even still, I do really like the idea of being able to just stick on a White, do a mild retune and enjoy the car as it, just with a little "extra".
I drove a car with a 50trim on it once while it was being road tuned and the lag was a BIG turnoff for me - sure it made great power but doing all those 3rd gear WOT runs really made the lag hit home to the point where I just couldn't imagine how someone would enjoy daily driving such a car.
Driven against a car with a full 3076 kit on as well and same thing - laggy! He could only really creep up and away from me at very high rpms in the real world where his turbo was strongest and mine was weakest (on track of course haha).
I know turbos like the Green and Red spool lots quicker than a 50trim and with the right mods that you can greatly offset lag (have ridden in one particularly insane 2.3 stroker, Green equipped AutoX car that was just nuts in terms of power and response) but that process can be complex and expensive once you add in all the "extras".
In the end, I'm still liking the notion of as-stock-like-spool as possible with a nice power/torque curve. I do prefer curves in general though so I'm a bit biased haha
Just my 2c.
PS Robert, good point about less thermal loads...that is something I DO consider, especially given where I live!
Again, keep the Whte reviews comin' ppl!
Last edited by theshadow; Sep 19, 2008 at 11:22 AM.
Sep 19, 2008, 11:41 AM
#565
When we tested the HTA-White back in early July, the initial observation from both vwjeff and I was holy crap. I've said it so many times, "The midrange is strong and it continues too pull up top." That was no bs, just factual observations from two people who know performance from bs. The HTA-White is an excellent option for a stock replacement turbo. If you're going to have to rebuild your turbo, you may as well upgrade to the White and gain a bunch of midrange and pretty darn good topend at the same time. Besides the performance, the efficiency is better too, allowing for .....MORE BOOST.
Sep 19, 2008, 12:07 PM
#568
I know the TME 6.5 has been around for a long time and has extremely fast spool, with more top end flow than a stock VIII turbo, but for similarly priced stock-frame turbos, how does the White compare the the TME 6.5 in terms of spool and flow?
Sep 19, 2008, 12:29 PM
#569
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@FastFreddie: hey man how's it! Hope you guys'll be back soon. Need to give you guys a REAL test drive
@Aniel: great news, noted
@hokiruu: good question. I haven't heard much about the TME turbo (and variations thereof)
@Aniel: great news, noted
@hokiruu: good question. I haven't heard much about the TME turbo (and variations thereof)
Last edited by theshadow; Sep 19, 2008 at 12:32 PM.
Sep 19, 2008, 12:32 PM
#570
Well, I installed my FP White a couple of weeks ago and am very happy with it so far. I still need to be retuned as my injector IDC's were at 96% with my old stock turbo, a 10.5 hotside, and HKS 264/272 cams. I did get a surprise when I first took it for a test drive. I usually have this turn I take near my house and when the boost hit at a 26 psi spike, the power hit so hard that I had a bit of trouble keeping the car in control. That never happened to me with the stock turbo. Overall I'm impressed. Can't wait for the new tune.