EVO Red pump gas/race gas dyno numbers.
Jul 15, 2008, 09:02 PM
#106
Thanks for that good info Razorlab. The main objection I have with someone telling me that my information is incorrect is 1: It's very common for 4th gear to show higher numbers than 3rd gear, regardless of the reason. If it's due to not synching the dyno, so be it. It still happens. Obviously, MilSpec has seen the same thing. 2: As 9sec240 said it was due to 'poor boost control' would assume that an ecu based, or electronic based boost controller will outperform a manual boost controller. I'm certain that many manual controllers are beating electronic based controllers every day. I agree that boost may be held to tighter windows on elect controllers, but the assumption that the manual is 'poor' means that anything other than electronic is 'poor' is an overstatement. Proper WG adjustment and manual controller adjustment work more than adequate on thousands of cars. 3: All of the 'peripheral' conversation as to synching, proper controller, etc simply skirts the original post he made which stated that 4th gear would not show 'big' differences to 3rd gear dyno pulls. It does everyday. That's real world. Theory may prove different, but I've observed the difference myself. Regardless of the reason.
Jul 15, 2008, 09:03 PM
#107
btw, I just want to make sure my post doesn't get mistaken for more than what it was.
I just posted that to show what I see on our Mustang dyno and share my experience with different gears on our Mustang dyno.
I want to make it clear I am not taking any sides in whatever other argument is going on here.
Make power not war.
I just posted that to show what I see on our Mustang dyno and share my experience with different gears on our Mustang dyno.
I want to make it clear I am not taking any sides in whatever other argument is going on here.
Make power not war.
Jul 15, 2008, 09:06 PM
#108
As 9sec240 said it was due to 'poor boost control' would assume that an ecu based, or electronic based boost controller will outperform a manual boost controller. I'm certain that many manual controllers are beating electronic based controllers every day. I agree that boost may be held to tighter windows on elect controllers, but the assumption that the manual is 'poor' means that anything other than electronic is 'poor' is an overstatement. Proper WG adjustment and manual controller adjustment work more than adequate on thousands of cars. 3: All of the 'peripheral' conversation as to synching, proper controller, etc simply skirts the original post he made which stated that 4th gear would not show 'big' differences to 3rd gear dyno pulls. It does everyday. That's real world. Theory may prove different, but I've observed the difference myself. Regardless of the reason.
There are reasons not pretaining to this thread for the boost control we use 90% of the time. I won't clutter the thread with it.
Jul 15, 2008, 09:07 PM
#110
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Not sure, but EVERY book I have and every post I've read by many tuners such as Ford's own race teams have stated that ALL dyno pulls are to be done in the gear that is closest to 1:1. I have a tendency to believe that, since I've observed differences in 3rd and 4th gear pulls and these professional teams have reasons for stating that. I would tend to listen to their advice. Razorlab, I hear what you're saying, my only comment on that would be then, Why would the statement be made that most pulls are done in 3rd gear then, if they were both of equal value? I think that AMS has successfully hijacked another thread that had nothing to do with them or their car. It has to do with Trents car. I'll always keep an open mind to being corrected. I can handle that, since I'm not all knowing. What I don't keep an open mind on is how someone continues to create havoc in a Buschur oriented thread that just happens to be getting attention. Maybe it's a habit that should be broken. I wonder what Dynojet and Mustang recommend for doing dyno pulls?
My disagreement with your statement is has nothing to do with the gear you dyno in but the reason that you stated to be in that gear. HP numbers do not go up and down significantly in different gears. They do however change a lot in turbo cars when the boost changes due to increased load on the car.
If you have a properly working and set up dyno, HP numbers in 3rd gear are going to be almost identical in 4th gear. If they are not, then something else changed.
Its that simple.
Jul 15, 2008, 09:15 PM
#111
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Let's get back on subject, the red.
Dave, would there be anyway you could overlay some stock/green/35R dyno graphs with one of the Red dyno graphs just to get a better picture of how good the red's powerband is? You did that with the green when that turbo came out comparing it to a 35R. Thanks.
Dave, would there be anyway you could overlay some stock/green/35R dyno graphs with one of the Red dyno graphs just to get a better picture of how good the red's powerband is? You did that with the green when that turbo came out comparing it to a 35R. Thanks.
Jul 16, 2008, 09:43 AM
#112
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Couldn't of said it better myself. I am reluctant to reopen this thread, but I am hoping that we can all just calm down a bit and discuss the topic at hand. If topics continue to go off topic the thread will be closed and will not be reopened again. Also points will be issued for repeat offenders.
Jul 16, 2008, 09:59 AM
#113
Thank you very very much for opening the thread again. I greatly appreciate it.
For the guys who support me, please refrain from any dyno discussion in this thread. If the guy who wanted to debate would like to continue the discussion please open another thread and I will come right over to talk about it in detail.
So the subject is the Red is a bad *** MF'er. Let's get back to that! haha
For the guys who support me, please refrain from any dyno discussion in this thread. If the guy who wanted to debate would like to continue the discussion please open another thread and I will come right over to talk about it in detail.
So the subject is the Red is a bad *** MF'er. Let's get back to that! haha
Jul 16, 2008, 10:36 AM
#115
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What kind of capabilities will the red have on a stock block with the stock ECU? Has BR done any kind of testing on an Evo with the usual bolt-on mods?
I've already built the head, but still have the stock turbo and don't have any plans of building the bottom. If the red is still a better choice than the green on a stock block, that would be awesome.
I've already built the head, but still have the stock turbo and don't have any plans of building the bottom. If the red is still a better choice than the green on a stock block, that would be awesome.
Jul 16, 2008, 11:00 AM
#116
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So lets recap all bolt on turbos out for Evo 7-9
16g 9.8housing,16g 10.5housing (single or dual flapper) 16g TME, 20g 9 (6blade or five), 20g 8 (6blade or 5blade), white rabbit, green & red.
Im i missing anything.
All we need is a black turbo to come out and will be set LOL. But for real so many options they all seem the same. As time goes by tuning gets better and better and power could be found in many ways. It seems they make theses turbos but testing of said products being that there tested on different cars different tunes making the numbers not valid in my eyes. Seems to be a over hype to sell a product. If all products are better then one another get all turbos lock yourself in a engine dyno room and test every turbo all at the same parameters boost, tune, room temps, engine temps and so on. I know no one will do but it would be a better presentation of said product and clear all judgement of said product.
Thats my .02 cents i dont really care for stock turbos or stock appearing turbos. And i dont want to start any debates on it either cuz it will be pointless.
16g 9.8housing,16g 10.5housing (single or dual flapper) 16g TME, 20g 9 (6blade or five), 20g 8 (6blade or 5blade), white rabbit, green & red.
Im i missing anything.
All we need is a black turbo to come out and will be set LOL. But for real so many options they all seem the same. As time goes by tuning gets better and better and power could be found in many ways. It seems they make theses turbos but testing of said products being that there tested on different cars different tunes making the numbers not valid in my eyes. Seems to be a over hype to sell a product. If all products are better then one another get all turbos lock yourself in a engine dyno room and test every turbo all at the same parameters boost, tune, room temps, engine temps and so on. I know no one will do but it would be a better presentation of said product and clear all judgement of said product.
Thats my .02 cents i dont really care for stock turbos or stock appearing turbos. And i dont want to start any debates on it either cuz it will be pointless.
