Subaru FP green reliability
Aug 2, 2008, 10:38 AM
#123
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: portage, MI / STL, MO
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Oh the irony! 
Aug 2, 2008, 01:38 PM
#125
So here's the summary of 124 posts:
1. Original poster buys two FP turbos. Both fail for reasons unknown to OP.
2. OP is a moderator on a Subie board. Sends e-mail messages to FP which demands $ refund (not warranty service) without sending back the turbos, with a veiled threat that he will cause bad publicity if his demands are not met. OP will not speak with FP by telephone (apparently anticipating lack of agreement to his demand and wanting it all on paper to post later)
3. FP responds with request for OP to send turbos back for inspection. Routine practice for warranty consideration is inspection of turbos for which warranty is requested. No rocket science there.
4. On inspection, FP finds that first turbo has failed because foreign object passed through turbine wheel and broke a fin. FP declines to warranty that one. FP looks at damage to the 2nd turbo (Subie Green -- different than Evo Green) and finds evidence that it failed due to oil starvation. Subaru, in 10/2007, has issued a Factory Service Bulletin (FSB) that their factory oiling system has a problem that can cause this result with factory turbos. FP Greens have larger bushing surfaces and need more oil. Because the OP used the FP oil line (with a special warranty extended by FP for doing so) FP agrees to rebuild the turbo for free, even though it was not a turbo defect.
5. OP rejects FP's offer, and refuses delivery of his own turbo when FP sends it back to him, rebuilt and ready to install. OP demands his money back for two turbos that he has installed, run and had damaged, through no fault of FP. OP fails to acknowledge that the FP warranty for turbos that are defective is to repair or rebuild, NOT to give a customer's money back months or years later. No surprise there -- that's the top of the industry standard warranty, if you're dealing with a reputable vendor.
6. OP then starts a thread on the board where he is a moderator, because he has special "pull" there to say whatever he wants
7. The thread on the Subie board is then cross-linked here by friends of the OP on the Subie board, trying to cause maximum negative exposure to FP because it declined to be bullied into not just warranting a turbo that was not defective, but further, refunding full payment for two turbos that a forum moderator demanded, just to respond to his threat of bad publicity.
8. Subaru board members then pump the thread with stupid arguments for 120+ posts to keep it active and at the top of the current message threads.
Look, Subaru people -- we just don't give a damn about this stupid claim by the Subie moderator. There is not a business on the planet that wouldn't hold to only warranting defective products, and it would be stupid to vary its warranty policy if a product WAS defective just because a person who thinks he has some clout demands that change, or says that he'll raise a ruckus on the internet. Anyone with a computer would demand concessions for ever if that was the case. Warranty policies would be useless, and the rest of us would find the price of extortion built into every product that was sold. I'm glad that FP stuck to their policy, inspected the turbos, and gave the OP the benefit of the doubt about the Subie Green, even though its failure was not the fault of either the buyer or the vendor.
Unlike STI owners who just started to deal with FP in the last few years, we've been putting FP products on 4g63 engined cars for quite a while. Lots of us started our dealings with FP when some of you present STI owners were still riding bicycles to school. We have a long experience of great products, which FP stands behind in the rare event that a FP product fails unexpectedly, and which the vast majority of us have never needed to warranty, because FP products work and work forever, as long as they're taken care of. I read what Robert responded to the Subie board moderator. I think he was very businesslike and respectful, given the nature of the threats and demands from the beginning.
Frankly, what I wish is that the Subie OP had bought a product from some of the other vendors on EvoM, who are more colorful and excitable in their responses. Reading a thread with responses from some of those guys would have been MUCH more fun than the ones the OP posted.....
Did FP make some off-handed comments about Subie owners not working on their cars? Sure. Was it true? Yep. Would it be equally true about some Evo owners? Of course. Don't get your panties in a wad about side issues. Everyone in business has said things that are true, but not politically correct. Life goes on.
The main focus should always be the quality of the product and whether the vendor does what their warranty promises, if a product ever fails. FP did that and more, giving the OP Subie moderator the benefit of the doubt and rebuilding his turbo for free. Compare that to other vendors and see what you get...
1. Original poster buys two FP turbos. Both fail for reasons unknown to OP.
2. OP is a moderator on a Subie board. Sends e-mail messages to FP which demands $ refund (not warranty service) without sending back the turbos, with a veiled threat that he will cause bad publicity if his demands are not met. OP will not speak with FP by telephone (apparently anticipating lack of agreement to his demand and wanting it all on paper to post later)
3. FP responds with request for OP to send turbos back for inspection. Routine practice for warranty consideration is inspection of turbos for which warranty is requested. No rocket science there.
4. On inspection, FP finds that first turbo has failed because foreign object passed through turbine wheel and broke a fin. FP declines to warranty that one. FP looks at damage to the 2nd turbo (Subie Green -- different than Evo Green) and finds evidence that it failed due to oil starvation. Subaru, in 10/2007, has issued a Factory Service Bulletin (FSB) that their factory oiling system has a problem that can cause this result with factory turbos. FP Greens have larger bushing surfaces and need more oil. Because the OP used the FP oil line (with a special warranty extended by FP for doing so) FP agrees to rebuild the turbo for free, even though it was not a turbo defect.
5. OP rejects FP's offer, and refuses delivery of his own turbo when FP sends it back to him, rebuilt and ready to install. OP demands his money back for two turbos that he has installed, run and had damaged, through no fault of FP. OP fails to acknowledge that the FP warranty for turbos that are defective is to repair or rebuild, NOT to give a customer's money back months or years later. No surprise there -- that's the top of the industry standard warranty, if you're dealing with a reputable vendor.
6. OP then starts a thread on the board where he is a moderator, because he has special "pull" there to say whatever he wants
7. The thread on the Subie board is then cross-linked here by friends of the OP on the Subie board, trying to cause maximum negative exposure to FP because it declined to be bullied into not just warranting a turbo that was not defective, but further, refunding full payment for two turbos that a forum moderator demanded, just to respond to his threat of bad publicity.
8. Subaru board members then pump the thread with stupid arguments for 120+ posts to keep it active and at the top of the current message threads.
Look, Subaru people -- we just don't give a damn about this stupid claim by the Subie moderator. There is not a business on the planet that wouldn't hold to only warranting defective products, and it would be stupid to vary its warranty policy if a product WAS defective just because a person who thinks he has some clout demands that change, or says that he'll raise a ruckus on the internet. Anyone with a computer would demand concessions for ever if that was the case. Warranty policies would be useless, and the rest of us would find the price of extortion built into every product that was sold. I'm glad that FP stuck to their policy, inspected the turbos, and gave the OP the benefit of the doubt about the Subie Green, even though its failure was not the fault of either the buyer or the vendor.
Unlike STI owners who just started to deal with FP in the last few years, we've been putting FP products on 4g63 engined cars for quite a while. Lots of us started our dealings with FP when some of you present STI owners were still riding bicycles to school. We have a long experience of great products, which FP stands behind in the rare event that a FP product fails unexpectedly, and which the vast majority of us have never needed to warranty, because FP products work and work forever, as long as they're taken care of. I read what Robert responded to the Subie board moderator. I think he was very businesslike and respectful, given the nature of the threats and demands from the beginning.
Frankly, what I wish is that the Subie OP had bought a product from some of the other vendors on EvoM, who are more colorful and excitable in their responses. Reading a thread with responses from some of those guys would have been MUCH more fun than the ones the OP posted.....
Did FP make some off-handed comments about Subie owners not working on their cars? Sure. Was it true? Yep. Would it be equally true about some Evo owners? Of course. Don't get your panties in a wad about side issues. Everyone in business has said things that are true, but not politically correct. Life goes on.
The main focus should always be the quality of the product and whether the vendor does what their warranty promises, if a product ever fails. FP did that and more, giving the OP Subie moderator the benefit of the doubt and rebuilding his turbo for free. Compare that to other vendors and see what you get...
Last edited by CO_VR4; Aug 2, 2008 at 01:40 PM.
Aug 2, 2008, 03:38 PM
#126
Admin Emeritus
Thread is locked. There is nothing further to discuss on this site. It is disapointing that an automotive enthusiast's website would encourage spamming another board. Thanks.
Aug 3, 2008, 04:48 AM
#127
Admin Emeritus
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