TTP Engineering

iTrader: (465)

4000-5000rpms flutter which is manageable.

RazorLab

iTrader: (8)

What gear is that Scott? Also what boost at 7k?

GrocMax

As some of you may remember, we caught a LOT of **** after the 'leak' of the Red on why it was forecast for release so far down the road vs. NOW. The entire reason for that was Surge Testing. We felt during the Alpha phase long ago it was entirely too possible a large fraction of the customer base would attempt to induce 'surge' in high gear and complain, therefore the original design was to allow for a (properly implemented) surge ported comp cover, which proved to be a time consuming endeavor. We could never induce true surge, just presurge (flutter, etc.) during alpha/beta phase. We have yet to see a combo that is able to jump the surge line. I suspect it exists, but as the above poster states, 'It is manageable'. You have to remember, everything is a compromise. To gain in one area, you must lose in another. This project (rev rot. EVO Red) is a perfect example of a four YEAR struggle to compromise around the factory footprint for housings.

If you insist on 5th or 6th gear 1500-3500 RPM up a 11% grade clean performance, buy a diesel truck. Or a Camry. Myself, I'd rather shift down 2 gears.

After living with this thing for awhile, anyone who catches me on the tech line and *****es about 'surge' will be emphatically encouraged to buy a Camry or a Tahoe.

hokiruu

iTrader: (19)

Wow, this is ridiculous. Okay...
I can see the mentality behind wanting to compare the two turbos but the whole "comparison" suffers from multiple flaws that turn it into the mess reflected in this thread, including:

#1- NUMBERS! EvoM suffers from excessive emphasis on dyno and other numbers, especially peak numbers. Not that this isn't useful info, but there's more to it than a dyno can show, and more to take into consideration when thinking about turbos. What about HOW THE CAR DRIVES? Just a reminder what all the numbers are for anyway.

#2- "Let's compare this to a 35R." As some have already stated, there is too much difference between the parts needed to run either turbo to make an accurate comparison between the two. Tons of 35R results are everywhere since a long time and come in all types of variations and combinations. Stock vs. built block, stock vs. built head, manifolds, pump gas, race gas, E85, blah blah blah.
The Red is simply too new to offer the same spread of results... yet. Just because we have what, less than a handfull of Red cars dyno'd and drag raced on the Red so far doesn't mean we have enough data to make a truly informed comparison yet, especially between a 35R. In addition, a 35R should still flow more.

They aren't supposed to be similar or comparable, like which is going to be better with 99949547 possible variations of it compared to the 889887348 variables of the other!!! They fill different niches in power, price, need, and market. Is that okay? If you MUST compare, please compare it to something at least a bit more appropriate, like a 30R.

*The "rumor" that the Red flows more than 56 lb./min and as much as 60lb/min. came directly from 9sec9/Tom based on specific datalogging he has done. Refer to "THE" original Red thread.

#3 "Since it's a bolt-on turbo, it's more suitable for the stock bottom end than a 35R. Yay it's a $1900 way to 450+ whp from stock with boltons! Let's even push it there on 91oct!!!"
... or so some seem to think I'm not saying X whp./tq can't be made on a dyno with either turbo on a stock bottom end/head, but BOTH of these turbos are capable of making more than enough power to exceed the limits of your stock bottom end if you actually drive the car hard enough and often/long enogh to enjoy all that power. With the level of power most seek on a Red or 35R, it warrants a built block.

#4- The people saying that this is the "ultimate Road Race and Autcross turbo", WHAT are you basing that on? The fact that it's smaller and spools faster than a drag racing turbo? Not all driving with "twisties" needs even remotely the same turbo. Serious and purpose-built road racing and autocross cars can require very different power and in different places. Do you even know what serious road racers and autocrossers run, win on, and need? It doesn't seem like it with blanket statements like that, so please, don't lump the two together and assume anything smaller than a 35R is "the ultimate road race and autocross turbo."
/rant. I probably won't even keep the subscription to this BS.

ninekrevs

iTrader: (119)

Interesting theory. I guess FP would sell more turbos by renaming the HTA EvoGreen to EvoRed.

matt55

iTrader: (12)

Could you post up that dyno sheet , any tuning on 93 btw ?

CO_VR4

iTrader: (83)

The Evo RED (that I had in my hands and is now in my car) has a proprietary billet HTA 76mm CNC'd compressor wheel (which is NOT the same wheel as was tested in what was originally called the GreenHTA -- that one was smaller (47lbs/minute or so) than the existing Green (49 lbs/minute), which the one in the RED is obviously substantially larger @ 60 lbs/minute.

The RED also has a proprietary turbine wheel assembly that is larger than the one in the GreenHTA or the Evo Green. I understand that this turbine wheel was especially designed and produced by FP with characteristics that they determined would be a very good match for the 76MM HTA compressor wheel. That is a lot of time and effort, and a substantial lead time as well. This didn't happen overnight, folks. Does it ring any bells when you hear from FP potential competitors that " our xxxx product that will compete with an Evo Green will be available as soon as we figure out where to get a turbine wheel for it?" Well, custom sized turbine wheels are a lot more difficult to make than are compressor wheels, which can be had by machining a properly sized piece of aluminium in a 5 or 6 axis CNC mill. FP stepped up for us months ago, did their homework, paid the substantial cost of making precision molds, etc. etc. etc. and now has a custom turbine part that we're enjoying.

The Evo Red is NOT a more successfully tested HTA Green, nor does it use the TME turbine wheel, but I'm happy to hear that it spools like one

sparky

iTrader: (1)

How close are you to firing it up and giving us your Red driving impressions? And what's with all the smiley faces, anyway? LOL

sparky

iTrader: (1)

Sorry to doubt, and thanks for the boost log graphic. Simply incredible! Nice job of tuing it, BTW!

Incidentally, AFAIK the TME turbo had a Titanium-Aluminide turbine wheel, but the shaft is steel. At least, I think that's right, although I am probably wrong again.

CO_VR4

iTrader: (83)

I have a mismatch in flanges on the downpipe to exhaust joint that will take a few days to have modified and TIG'd into matching up, and some AEM map changes to get the transition from the 35R maps to the new maps in shape, then I should be ready for startup again. I made a few more changes to the system than just the turbo swap, so the small things slow you down, sometimes. Work gets in the way of car modding sometimes, too...

As far as the smiley faces, well, that's just anticipation There will be more when the car fires up...

ForcedPerformance

iTrader: (6)

Scott, I an very glad that you are satisfied with the results of the FP EVORed turbocharger. I liken it to someone telling me that my newborn son is handsome

I think you got great results out of this car, and 460+whp is a handful of fun to drive to be sure. Thanks also for sharing your observations about the spoolup of the turbocharger. Many people on the board are anxiously awaiting "third party" results from tuners like yourself and need to see what tuners in the field observe in "normal guy" type cars.

Thanks!

evoracingstar

iTrader: (31)

ok i will post up my pump and my race gas map wen i get tuned. member im on stock ecu stock block no meth. in my own opinion u cant compare 35r at full potential vs a fp red at full potential.

4g63smokinall4s

iTrader: (64)

Well you cant even lookm at this car as a liable source.. this dude OWNS FP and yea his car is going to be ridiculous..

either way you put it.. 35r will outflow any day of the week! all in preferance tho

CO_VR4

iTrader: (83)

^^^^^ To the contrary, FP's personal car is relatively stock -- the only major mod that most of us won't duplicate is the Motec, which was necessary for multi-source non-factory datalogging.

FP has no preference which one you buy -- the HTA 35R is the best of that genre, and the Red is a FP proprietary exclusive, so they've got you covered no matter which you prefer.

There's no question that the 35R will "out-flow" the Red, but the question is for most people is whether the upper end advantage justifies giving up some of the other characteristics that the Red has.

Plus, what exactly is the difference in the real world? The PR guys already laid down a 9.59 at 142MPH on the Red within a week of its being shipped. You only need your fingers to count all faster Evos than that, no matter how much bigger turbo they're running... and Dave Buschur is the only one who has run a better time than that on a 35R in an Evo, at least according to the list at DSMTimes.org http://www.dsmtimes.org/times.php?He...ype=evo&Page=1

Toxin

iTrader: (2)

PR's got Roly and don't forget... They got a green into the 9's so if people are misreading this - no buying a Red won't get you a 9 second evo. However for the price it seems so far, by far the best bang for the buck.