Evo8Emperor

iTrader: (12)

Whats goin on guys. I didnt want to post this yet until I tried to figure it out but the problem is I have no idea where to start. I should start with the car and mods. Its an 03 Evo 8 with a ported evo 9 turbo, hks 272 intake and exhaust cams, hks intake, synapse bov, BR licp, ebay 4" front mount, custom uicp, 680cc injectors, and a hks evc. Thats all that pretty much matters as for performance.

I got my car on Swift Motorsports Dyno Dynamics dyno finally to see what its putting down. It based line at 250/250 to the wheels with a base line map. Then when I left I was at 320 whp 280 wtrq. For some reason Im not getting any air flow up top and my boost controller wont go any higher than 28 lbs. The car right now is running 28 lbs with the evc maxed out.

Then the next week I headed down to the shoot out this past weekend. I got the car on Buschurs dyno and it put down 288 whp and 281 wtrq. All before 5k hp peaked at like 4500 rpms.

What is the problem with my car ? All power falls off after 5k and the car doesnt want to go anywhere. The HKs evc should push 32 psi i believe so i dont know why it wont go higher. My only idea is that the 4 "ebay front mount is way to big for the stock turbo. Serves me right if it is. I bought it 3 years ago before I was smart with the parts I buy.

Any ideas lets hear them. In the meantime Ill be saving for a full race vertical flow intercooler. Ill have to get it soon to lay down some times if that is indeed the problem.

Thanks guys.

Warrtalon

iTrader: (6)

We need details:
- Show us the dyno charts
- Tell us what you feel/hear/see at 4500rpm when the power goes away
- What fuel are you running? I assume race gas, alky/meth, or E-85?
- The stock turbo doesn't really run 32psi for everyone, and for those who do hit 32psi, it's only for a brief moment. EBCs are not as clearcut as MBCs, so maybe you're settings aren't correct, or maybe the turbo simply can't flow enough air to reach 32 due to the FMIC

Evo8Emperor

iTrader: (12)

Ill have to get pics of the charts up for you after work.

As for fuel its just straight 93. The car pulls hard right up until 4500 rpms then you can feel there is no power behind the car anymore it just keeps dropping to redline.

And I was just saying the evc wasnt hitting its max that it should be able to. Not that I want 32 psi on pump but there's no reason it shouldnt hit it.

RazorLab

iTrader: (8)

it drops off after 4500?

Check to make sure all your timing marks line up at TDC, cams might be off
Boost leak
Intake restriction
Exhaust restriction

Warrtalon

iTrader: (6)

You never mentioned a reasonable boost level, so we would have to assume you're running your EVC-limited 28psi on 93oct while attempting to hit 32psi. Is this the case?
Are you running boost like that all the time?
How would you know it can't go that high if you're not doing it on 93oct?
Do you add race gas when making these attempts?
What boost are you running daily on 93oct to achieve the above results?
When did this loss of power begin to occur?

mrdevo

iTrader: (4)

I'm gonna say that you're running too much boost and the car is knocking bad and pulling timing.

Evo8Emperor

iTrader: (12)

Well let me try and start fresh and state everything clearly as possible.

The car was just put on the dyno after 3 years of not running.

I bought the car 3 years ago with HKS Hi Power exhaust, HKS 272 Intake and Exhaust cams, HKS EVC, HKS Intake, PTE 680cc injectors.

The only changes to the car while it sat were a 4" ebay front mount, evo 9 turbo w/ ported hotside, intercooler piping, synapse bov.

The intake manifold, tb, exhaust mani , and o2 housing are all still stock unported. But I do have a new o2 housing I just bought from Buschur when I was over at the shoot out.

Now the car runs only on 93 oct. When the car baselined it was at 250 hp @4400rpms and 240 trq @ 5800rpms running 20psi tapering to 18psi. And the hp was falling off after 4400 rpms.

Then when I left I was up to 320 hp @ 4300rpms and 270 trq @ 5600rpms and I was running 28 psi tapering to 24psi.

The tuner at Swift is a friend of mine his name is Matt. Hes here on the forums under mixmastermatt. When we talked he told me he was getting a lot of knock up top when there was barely any timing. That and my boost controller was only letting him go to 28psi.

Im saying my evc should go to at least 30 psi so something is either making the turbo work to hard or something along those lines.

Im going to try and get my dyno graphs posted. I also managed to get the car on two different dynos in two weeks. One being swifts and the other being dave buschurs at the shoot out. Different power and trq but same overall graph. It peaks then drops off.

Warrtalon

iTrader: (6)

Why was he trying to hit that much boost on 93oct? I would fully expect knock when running huge boost like that on 93oct even if timing is retarded. I wonder how high the EGTs were at that point, too.

Are you sure those numbers are right? Those values are way off for an Evo and are partly why we need to see the dynosheet. I would think Matt and the guys at BR would see those curves and immediately throw up the red flag.

When you revived the car, did you use all new gas, new plugs, and whatever else you'd need to replace after sitting that long? I think there is a major problem that could include compression, but I'm hoping it's more along the lines of a major boost leak or damaged wastegate.

Evo8Emperor

iTrader: (12)

Brand new plugs and changed the oil. Nevermind while it sat I also had a ACT clutch installed and all the fluids were changed then and no miles every put on till now.

Car runs great. Matt I believe has the car on the rich side with yes 28 psi peak falling down to 24 psi with a electronic boost controller(hks evc). I think he is trying to give me what I can so I could drive it and not look like an a$$ at the shoot out. I managed to run stock times and that was it. Car had nothing up top.

Nevermind driving 10 hrs to the shoot out straight there no long stops. Car never hiccuped on the drive or running it 6-7 times that day.

Evo8Emperor

iTrader: (12)

Ohh I forgot. During the tune he told me it was getting crazy amounts of knock up top with just 13* timing. So he lowered it to about 11* I think. My gas mileage shows for how rich it runs to accommodate 28psi.

He pretty much tuned the car for midrange at this point so its some what drive able ya know. Its my daily driver.

I really am leaning to the 4" ebay front mount. 1 its off ebay and I bought three years ago knowing nothing. 2. I only changed the fmic set up from stock and bov.

Warrtalon

iTrader: (6)

I still do not understand why you are running 28psi on an Evo VIII with just 93oct. Why would he do that and why would you not have your hair on fire wanting it put back down to ~22psi? You should not be over 22 or maybe 23psi on an VIII with 93oct. He's having to tune it rich and do low timing due to the absurd amount of boost he set you at. If he's a tuner, then I would think he'd know not to do that. Your EGTs are probably dangerously high if not already the cause of damage to the motor.

Your gas mileage is not affected by the open loop richness unless you're boosting a lot around town. Your closed loop (cruising, low throttle, idle) is set automatically and is not part of your tune unless he specifically changed it, which would not make any sense.

This is starting to make my gut churn a bit. I think this car needs to be seen by a professional both mechanically and tuning-wise.

BlueDemon

iTrader: (22)

^ I agree with Warrtalon on this one. 28 psi is just at the edge of tuning on pump gas. Most of the time you are knocking at that amount of boost.

26 psi should be the maximum amount of boost you should see on a stock turbo on pump gas.

Edit: I just found out that this is on a Evo VIII. The limit is even lower on the VIII.

Tuner@Swift

iTrader: (1)

Let me clear some things up here. I wasn't trying to tune his car @ 28 psi. My final target boost was 24psi, but initially I could only get about 20 out of it with the EBC set to 100%.

The car was knocking pretty bad during the baseline run. As seen below:


Retarding timing did nothing:


During this whole process, IC couplers were blowing off, one even blew a hole right through it. After a few hours and not getting anywhere, I set fuel and timing ultraconservative and told him to keep the boost set @ about 20 psi. I personally think its false knock, since its consistent regardless of fuel and timing changes.

I met up with him a few days later to try a few things, and I was able to run more timing with no knock up top, but still with transitional knock.


I would never run 28psi on the stock turbo without w/m or race gas. After fixing the IC piping couplers, boost may have come up a bit, but I called to tell him to keep it on the lower boost setting until we could figure out what was going on.

Tuner@Swift

iTrader: (1)

He has an 8 with a 9 turbo.

Warrtalon

iTrader: (6)

That makes more sense Matt. None of the info he was giving did, though.

I still would like to see the dyno plots, because the peak values he posted and their relevant rpms do not make any sense. Something is definitely wrong with this car.