Ecu
May 1, 2002, 06:46 AM
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ECU
In considering the modifications that I will do to my Evo, I am hung up on whether to go with a new programmable ECU, or simply boost controller, fuel regulator etc.
I would like to maintain 1.5-1.6 bars of boost, and definately want to avoid fuel cut. I know I can achieve this with an Apexi setup(AVC-R, AFC fuel controller), but don't like the idea of "tricking" my cars ECU into thinking that less boost is being produced and thus run lean and risk detonation. I understand that I can fix this with a fuel regulator and a bigger pump, but I assume only to a certain extent. I also do not like the Fuel Cut defencer from HKS.
I am willing to spend the $$ on a new ECU to solve all of these issues, but am unsure of the local support(ie. knowledgeable ECU programmers). It is my understanding that the GEMS is possibly the best, but has almost no local(USA) support. I know that there is authorized dealers for both Motec(4 or 48) and Apexi(Power FC) in the US, but not sure if I am confident in anyone mapping it on the new Evo.
So really my choice is going with multiple Apexi units to raise boost while avoiding fuel cut, or an entire new ECU.
Anyone with any input?
We really need to track down some competent ECU mappers.
Mordeth
I would like to maintain 1.5-1.6 bars of boost, and definately want to avoid fuel cut. I know I can achieve this with an Apexi setup(AVC-R, AFC fuel controller), but don't like the idea of "tricking" my cars ECU into thinking that less boost is being produced and thus run lean and risk detonation. I understand that I can fix this with a fuel regulator and a bigger pump, but I assume only to a certain extent. I also do not like the Fuel Cut defencer from HKS.
I am willing to spend the $$ on a new ECU to solve all of these issues, but am unsure of the local support(ie. knowledgeable ECU programmers). It is my understanding that the GEMS is possibly the best, but has almost no local(USA) support. I know that there is authorized dealers for both Motec(4 or 48) and Apexi(Power FC) in the US, but not sure if I am confident in anyone mapping it on the new Evo.
So really my choice is going with multiple Apexi units to raise boost while avoiding fuel cut, or an entire new ECU.
Anyone with any input?
We really need to track down some competent ECU mappers.
Mordeth
May 4, 2002, 11:07 AM
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Boost Cut
Hi there.
I understand your concerns with using a fuel cut defender. The danger of running lean is very apparent - but only if u do not compensate for that boost amount.
You do not need to run a standalone, aftermarket computer if you want to run 1.5 - 1.6 bar. To do so would be fine, but really not worth the money.
What you can do is run a fuel cut defender in conjunction with a piggyback fuelling computer such as the Unichip or the Apexi SAFC.
This way, your standard ecu may think it's running 1 bar boost when the reality is 1.5 bar, at the same time, your piggyback is telling it to provide enough fuelling for 1.5 bar. so you're safe!
This the setup i'm using in my track car now and i've had no problems.
An Evo 7's stock injectors and fuel pump can handle up to 400 BHP - so unless you want to go over that, you won't have to worry about upgrading them or installing fuel regulators.
I understand your concerns with using a fuel cut defender. The danger of running lean is very apparent - but only if u do not compensate for that boost amount.
You do not need to run a standalone, aftermarket computer if you want to run 1.5 - 1.6 bar. To do so would be fine, but really not worth the money.
What you can do is run a fuel cut defender in conjunction with a piggyback fuelling computer such as the Unichip or the Apexi SAFC.
This way, your standard ecu may think it's running 1 bar boost when the reality is 1.5 bar, at the same time, your piggyback is telling it to provide enough fuelling for 1.5 bar. so you're safe!
This the setup i'm using in my track car now and i've had no problems.
An Evo 7's stock injectors and fuel pump can handle up to 400 BHP - so unless you want to go over that, you won't have to worry about upgrading them or installing fuel regulators.
May 4, 2002, 07:45 PM
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Claudius:
From a pricing standpoint, I see the S-AFC for $419 and the AVC-R for $629 + accessories. That is over a grand. Now the Power FC is $980 + I believe $350 for the Boost Control Kit. Doesn't seem like a whole heck of a lot more for the Power FC, and you get a complete engine management system.
Did I miss something here? Why would someone buy both the S-AFC and the AVC-R when for a few hundred more bucks you get the whole sha-bang?
Banzai:
Thank you for the input. I appreciate it. But unless my math is wrong, I still don't see how buying a boost controller, S-AFC and fuel cut defender could be that much cheaper than the Power FC. My only problem is finding a tuner in the US that knows how to map these things.
Mordeth
From a pricing standpoint, I see the S-AFC for $419 and the AVC-R for $629 + accessories. That is over a grand. Now the Power FC is $980 + I believe $350 for the Boost Control Kit. Doesn't seem like a whole heck of a lot more for the Power FC, and you get a complete engine management system.
Did I miss something here? Why would someone buy both the S-AFC and the AVC-R when for a few hundred more bucks you get the whole sha-bang?
Banzai:
Thank you for the input. I appreciate it. But unless my math is wrong, I still don't see how buying a boost controller, S-AFC and fuel cut defender could be that much cheaper than the Power FC. My only problem is finding a tuner in the US that knows how to map these things.
Mordeth
May 4, 2002, 08:31 PM
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Originally posted by Mordeth
Claudius:
From a pricing standpoint, I see the S-AFC for $419 and the AVC-R for $629 + accessories. That is over a grand. Now the Power FC is $980 + I believe $350 for the Boost Control Kit. Doesn't seem like a whole heck of a lot more for the Power FC, and you get a complete engine management system.
Claudius:
From a pricing standpoint, I see the S-AFC for $419 and the AVC-R for $629 + accessories. That is over a grand. Now the Power FC is $980 + I believe $350 for the Boost Control Kit. Doesn't seem like a whole heck of a lot more for the Power FC, and you get a complete engine management system.
Originally posted by Mordeth
Why would someone buy both the S-AFC and the AVC-R when for a few hundred more bucks you get the whole sha-bang?
Why would someone buy both the S-AFC and the AVC-R when for a few hundred more bucks you get the whole sha-bang?
Because it's hard to program the Power FC when you dont have the link box to the Laptop which only A'PEXi dealers in Japan and the USA have!
May 4, 2002, 11:13 PM
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Originally posted by Claudius
Yes, BUT: the boost control unit on the Power FC is not as good as an AVC-R (rpm mappable) so you would ideally install a Power FC and an AVC-R (which I am going to do).
sha-bang?
Because it's hard to program the Power FC when you dont have the link box to the Laptop which only A'PEXi dealers in Japan and the USA have!
Yes, BUT: the boost control unit on the Power FC is not as good as an AVC-R (rpm mappable) so you would ideally install a Power FC and an AVC-R (which I am going to do).
sha-bang?
Because it's hard to program the Power FC when you dont have the link box to the Laptop which only A'PEXi dealers in Japan and the USA have!
BTW, I thought that the FC Commander substituted for a Laptop(for programming) with this unit. True?
Okitenik: Thanks for the info.
Mordeth
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May 5, 2002, 12:49 AM
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Originally posted by Mordeth
BTW, I thought that the FC Commander substituted for a Laptop(for programming) with this unit. True?
BTW, I thought that the FC Commander substituted for a Laptop(for programming) with this unit. True?
Using the laptop connection device that A'PEXi rents out to its dealers will let you see the whole map on the screen at once. But then again, that's the tuner's problem
hehehe
May 5, 2002, 02:37 PM
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Claudius: reg. the AVC-R S-AFC fooling the ECU, that is EXACTLY what the S-AFC does, it fools the ECU into thinking there is something else going on.
Mordeth, you mentioned Motec, in case Motec is a finacially viable option for you, GET IT!!! Forget the jap-crap, go for a REAL racing ECU (M800
). An M800 is better than Gems, even M48Pro, but that needs a special part to be able to use the idle stepper motor, so get the M800 which can use the standard one.
Mordeth, you mentioned Motec, in case Motec is a finacially viable option for you, GET IT!!! Forget the jap-crap, go for a REAL racing ECU (M800
). An M800 is better than Gems, even M48Pro, but that needs a special part to be able to use the idle stepper motor, so get the M800 which can use the standard one.
May 5, 2002, 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by Michaelk
Claudius: reg. the AVC-R S-AFC fooling the ECU, that is EXACTLY what the S-AFC does, it fools the ECU into thinking there is something else going on.
Mordeth, you mentioned Motec, in case Motec is a finacially viable option for you, GET IT!!! Forget the jap-crap, go for a REAL racing ECU (M800 ). An M800 is better than Gems, even M48Pro, but that needs a special part to be able to use the idle stepper motor, so get the M800 which can use the standard one.
Claudius: reg. the AVC-R S-AFC fooling the ECU, that is EXACTLY what the S-AFC does, it fools the ECU into thinking there is something else going on.
Mordeth, you mentioned Motec, in case Motec is a finacially viable option for you, GET IT!!! Forget the jap-crap, go for a REAL racing ECU (M800
). An M800 is better than Gems, even M48Pro, but that needs a special part to be able to use the idle stepper motor, so get the M800 which can use the standard one.
What about the M4? It seems more suitable for our engine. No?
As for pricing, I don't mind spending an extra buck to get the best, especially when it comes to something as important as the ECU. But I have yet to find a quote or price on the Motec. I checked 20 websites and noone lists price.
Mordeth
May 5, 2002, 06:09 PM
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The M4 is also ok, cause it uses the standard ECU for idling, aircon, etc..
Just call a Motec dealer and ask them for a price, but unless America is very different, be prepared for something quite expensive...
Just call a Motec dealer and ask them for a price, but unless America is very different, be prepared for something quite expensive...
May 5, 2002, 07:47 PM
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The M800 is the daddy of all ECU...and has a price to match its superiority
You could always try to buy directly from the Aussies...
http://www.motec.com.au/m800.htm
...but my main concearn would be the actual programming. Being so new and advanced not too many people would actually know how to get the most out of it. That's my opinion anyways
You could always try to buy directly from the Aussies...
http://www.motec.com.au/m800.htm
...but my main concearn would be the actual programming. Being so new and advanced not too many people would actually know how to get the most out of it. That's my opinion anyways
May 5, 2002, 09:18 PM
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I certainly don't dismiss Japanese ECUs as easily as MichaelK does. I've only heard good things about the PFC+Commander, and plus mated to the AVC-R it works beautifully. These are also very popular in GT-R tuning, so since you don't own a racing team, and I suspect plan to drive your car mostly on roads, the APEXi kit is the obvious one to go for.
May 5, 2002, 09:24 PM
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They're cheaper, but when I want something for my car, I want race spec material, not everywhere but certainly with my ECU. I have made the mistake to use below par material once, and now I don't want to make the mistake again, especially as there is no support for Japanese ECUs here in Europe. In the US you have the support, but if you want the best you can only buy the best, which japanese ECUs just aren't that is my point.