Convince Me: E85 or Meth?
Oct 13, 2008, 10:14 PM
#47
E85 is rare and you need an entire fuel system that is meant for it and set up to run it not to mention your stock ECU can only hold one tune. Meth can be turned on and off instead of getting ****ty gas mileage all the time too. Meth with a failsafe is just as safe as E85 and way more convienient.
You don't need an "entire fuel system" for it.
The stock ECU has map switching capabilities now with a flick of a switch.
Gas mileage is not ****ty on E85, again 3-4mpg less.
Meth with a failsafe is not just as safe as E85. Anytime you add more points of failure the risk goes up, failsafe or not.
Oct 14, 2008, 08:33 AM
#49
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i did a little bit of math...let me know what you think...
these prices are available to me...
E85 = $2.39/gallon
91 = $3.05/gallon
Boost Juice = $29.95 + $25.34 shipping = $55.29/4 gallons
According to razorlab MPG on E85 is 3-4 mpg less than 91. Lets say i average 27 mpg on 91. So we can figure i would get 23 mpg on E85.
14 gallons w/ E85 = $33.46
14 gallons w/ 91 = $42.70
With E85, $33.46 for 14 gallons and 23 mpg, thats $0.104/ mile
With 91, $42.70 for 14 gallons and 27 mpg, thats $0.113/ mile
With that said E85 is still cheap considering mpg. Now lets throw in the price of meth!
Boost Juice is $29.95 + $25.34 for shipping = $55.29, for 4 gallons. Lets say I use 1 gallon of meth per 14 gallons of 91.
1 gallon of meth is $13.82. $55.29 / 4 = $13.8225
Add $13.82 for one gallon of meth + $42.70 for 14 gallons of 91 = $56.52 for the both.
That equals out to be $0.150/ mile.
So really in the end E85 vs. 91 is cheaper by $0.01 a mile. E85 vs 91+Meth is cheaper by $0.046 a mile.
So let's say you average 15,000 miles a year? How much would you save?
$0.046 for the difference per mile times 15,000 miles = $690
What would you do with that extra $690 a year?
these prices are available to me...
E85 = $2.39/gallon
91 = $3.05/gallon
Boost Juice = $29.95 + $25.34 shipping = $55.29/4 gallons
According to razorlab MPG on E85 is 3-4 mpg less than 91. Lets say i average 27 mpg on 91. So we can figure i would get 23 mpg on E85.
14 gallons w/ E85 = $33.46
14 gallons w/ 91 = $42.70
With E85, $33.46 for 14 gallons and 23 mpg, thats $0.104/ mile
With 91, $42.70 for 14 gallons and 27 mpg, thats $0.113/ mile
With that said E85 is still cheap considering mpg. Now lets throw in the price of meth!
Boost Juice is $29.95 + $25.34 for shipping = $55.29, for 4 gallons. Lets say I use 1 gallon of meth per 14 gallons of 91.
1 gallon of meth is $13.82. $55.29 / 4 = $13.8225
Add $13.82 for one gallon of meth + $42.70 for 14 gallons of 91 = $56.52 for the both.
That equals out to be $0.150/ mile.
So really in the end E85 vs. 91 is cheaper by $0.01 a mile. E85 vs 91+Meth is cheaper by $0.046 a mile.
So let's say you average 15,000 miles a year? How much would you save?
$0.046 for the difference per mile times 15,000 miles = $690
What would you do with that extra $690 a year?
Oct 14, 2008, 09:12 AM
#50
Yet another informative post!
You don't need an "entire fuel system" for it.
The stock ECU has map switching capabilities now with a flick of a switch.
Gas mileage is not ****ty on E85, again 3-4mpg less.
Meth with a failsafe is not just as safe as E85. Anytime you add more points of failure the risk goes up, failsafe or not.
You don't need an "entire fuel system" for it.
The stock ECU has map switching capabilities now with a flick of a switch.
Gas mileage is not ****ty on E85, again 3-4mpg less.
Meth with a failsafe is not just as safe as E85. Anytime you add more points of failure the risk goes up, failsafe or not.
Oct 14, 2008, 09:13 AM
#51
E85 is rare and you need an entire fuel system that is meant for it and set up to run it not to mention your stock ECU can only hold one tune. Meth can be turned on and off instead of getting ****ty gas mileage all the time too. Meth with a failsafe is just as safe as E85 and way more convienient.
Oct 28, 2008, 03:09 PM
#52
Sorry to bump an old thread. I would definitely chose E85 over meth, but then again I have never trusted meth/alky kits. People all over are making good power on E85, I would definitely recommend it to anyone that has it available. I've seen first hand how E85 compares to 100octane and 110octane. It makes around the same power, maybe a little more, at half the cost.
You don't get half the gas mileage. I did notice a drop, but it's definitely not half. Which part of Statesville are you from?
people are jumping on the e85 bandwagon because of the high octane or so they can claim they are being green,fact is if its 2.00 a gallon (whitch its not)and burns twice as much, then the mpg per dollar ends up being the same only difference is youre stopping to get gas more often.could get a cobb access port and get a tune for e85, 91 and 106.meth is the way to go ,tune for with it and without it.sorry you only get 91.in my town (statesville,n.c.) you can get 87,89,91,93,and 99 all at the same station.local dragstrip sells 106 and 116 on thurs,fri,sat. so we have access to about any grade you could want to run.personally i will never bother with the e85 just not worth the trouble.
Last edited by dsmfan95; Oct 28, 2008 at 03:12 PM.
Oct 28, 2008, 03:10 PM
#53
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Yet another informative post!
You don't need an "entire fuel system" for it.
The stock ECU has map switching capabilities now with a flick of a switch.
Gas mileage is not ****ty on E85, again 3-4mpg less.
Meth with a failsafe is not just as safe as E85. Anytime you add more points of failure the risk goes up, failsafe or not.
You don't need an "entire fuel system" for it.
The stock ECU has map switching capabilities now with a flick of a switch.
Gas mileage is not ****ty on E85, again 3-4mpg less.
Meth with a failsafe is not just as safe as E85. Anytime you add more points of failure the risk goes up, failsafe or not.
hokiruu, I understand you know better! But it may change but i dont think it does!! If it does we can tell a difference on tuning or cold start!! But im coming up with some new cold start things and hopefully we will have that fixed for this winter!
Oct 28, 2008, 03:41 PM
#56
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Simple... Horsepower
Gained 56 max hp and 16 ft-lbs of torque on E85 vs 91+50% meth. Both tunes were done consecutively on the same dyno at Harman Motive in Torrance, CA. Huge thumbs up to Dan H and Scott B! The quality of their work and tuning is top notch. Quality of work and customer service is the best I've had in SoCal.
E85 - 376 hp & 357 ft-lbs tq
91+ 50% meth - 320 hp & 341 ft-lbs tq
Dyno Graph Comparision
http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m...1methvsE85.jpg
I was amazed how smooth the E85's hp and torque curves... The car is my DD and a blast for street driving.
My mods include:
FP Green ported turbo w/FP actuator
RC1000 injectors
Agency Fuel Rail
FULL RACE exhaust manifold (tubular)
HKS 272 MIVEC cams
65mm Mil Spec TB (ported)
Sparco Intercooler
Springs & Retainers
Horsepower Freaks LICP
UICP
AEM meth kit
ECU load boost control
HKS DLI II
TiTek O2 housing
Walbro Fuel Pump
AMS small battery kit
K&N Intake
Full exhaust w/test pipe
HKS Ti Carbon muffler
Buddy Club grounding kit
DEFI gauges (EGT, Boost, Oil Pressure)
Labonte flow gauge (for meth)
AEM A/F gauge
GM boost solenoid
JDP map sensor (for logging)
Stock ECU (flash w/ alternative map switching functionality)
E85 - 376 hp & 357 ft-lbs tq
91+ 50% meth - 320 hp & 341 ft-lbs tq
Dyno Graph Comparision
http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m...1methvsE85.jpg
I was amazed how smooth the E85's hp and torque curves... The car is my DD and a blast for street driving.
My mods include:
FP Green ported turbo w/FP actuator
RC1000 injectors
Agency Fuel Rail
FULL RACE exhaust manifold (tubular)
HKS 272 MIVEC cams
65mm Mil Spec TB (ported)
Sparco Intercooler
Springs & Retainers
Horsepower Freaks LICP
UICP
AEM meth kit
ECU load boost control
HKS DLI II
TiTek O2 housing
Walbro Fuel Pump
AMS small battery kit
K&N Intake
Full exhaust w/test pipe
HKS Ti Carbon muffler
Buddy Club grounding kit
DEFI gauges (EGT, Boost, Oil Pressure)
Labonte flow gauge (for meth)
AEM A/F gauge
GM boost solenoid
JDP map sensor (for logging)
Stock ECU (flash w/ alternative map switching functionality)
Oct 28, 2008, 03:54 PM
#57
Another vote for E85 
. Here is my before and after from pump 93 octane to E85 on a very conservative tune:
My simple mod list:
3" turboback
Evopowermods 02 dump
ETS 3.5" Widetank Intercooler
Precision 1000cc injectors
Forge UNOS MBC
Walbro Fuel Pump
Fighters Garage LICP
Stock ECU
Stock turbo
Stock clutch
Stock UICP
Stock cams
Stock airbox
Stock wga
Stock headstuds
. Here is my before and after from pump 93 octane to E85 on a very conservative tune:My simple mod list:
3" turboback
Evopowermods 02 dump
ETS 3.5" Widetank Intercooler
Precision 1000cc injectors
Forge UNOS MBC
Walbro Fuel Pump
Fighters Garage LICP
Stock ECU
Stock turbo
Stock clutch
Stock UICP
Stock cams
Stock airbox
Stock wga
Stock headstuds
Oct 28, 2008, 04:16 PM
#58
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E85 hands down, no question. You'll notice a lot of people (including well established tuners) are ditching meth in favor of E85. In fact, E85 alone is producing massive gains over meth, often without even touching the tune. You can tune more aggressively, AND more reliably with it than meth. No finnicky failsafes with failsafes for the failsafes, which can still fail like with meth. Meth is a narrow margin of safety whereas E85's is huge. You can make more power with a very conservative E85 tune than an aggressive Meth tune.
I personally consider Meth to be like an outdated band-aid solution compared to running E85, and mostly just for people who either can't get ahold of E85 in their area, drive too much in areas without it, or whose racing class doesn't allow it (if that even exists.if is meth allowed seems E85 would be).
It's the 105 octane "torque fuel" that cleans your engine and can result in up to 35% reduced tailpipe emissions, while not being middle-east oil dependent fuel to boot!
I personally consider Meth to be like an outdated band-aid solution compared to running E85, and mostly just for people who either can't get ahold of E85 in their area, drive too much in areas without it, or whose racing class doesn't allow it (if that even exists.if is meth allowed seems E85 would be).
It's the 105 octane "torque fuel" that cleans your engine and can result in up to 35% reduced tailpipe emissions, while not being middle-east oil dependent fuel to boot!
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