Forced Performance Turbo Reliability
Nov 16, 2008, 08:12 PM
#76
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Bits of turbo blades dont make it past the intercooler. It's just not going to happen with any kind of standard intercooler. I can't let that stand out there for people that dont know any better to believe. Turbo blades didn't mess up engine bearings either, ever, anywhere. Compressor blades didnt get past an intercooler, then the piston rings and contaminate your oil and cause an oil pump failure. That is just your engine coming apart sir.
I cant beleive anyone could beleive that an exploded turbocharger can ruin main or rod bearings.
The turbo shaft snapped and then you lost oil pressure. Ok. maybe the order was the other way around? The turbo has nothing to do with producing oil pressure, it does of course need oil pressure from the engine, and if the engine is coming apart the way described, well.. there is going to be all sorts of problems, including an exploded turbo.
I cant beleive anyone could beleive that an exploded turbocharger can ruin main or rod bearings.
The turbo shaft snapped and then you lost oil pressure. Ok. maybe the order was the other way around? The turbo has nothing to do with producing oil pressure, it does of course need oil pressure from the engine, and if the engine is coming apart the way described, well.. there is going to be all sorts of problems, including an exploded turbo.
Nov 16, 2008, 08:53 PM
#79
Anything we ever deal with is normally FP. I stand behind them 100% Anything that I've needed has always been taken car of. This seems to be the concensus between everyone I know too and I've never known of anyone complaining about their support or product until reading this.
Which makes me wonder. With all of the products that FP has sold and all the people they've dealt with and you're going to question the reliability of FP as a company because your **** broke.
...I'd question your reliability before I'd ever point fingers at FP.
Which makes me wonder. With all of the products that FP has sold and all the people they've dealt with and you're going to question the reliability of FP as a company because your **** broke.
...I'd question your reliability before I'd ever point fingers at FP.
Nov 16, 2008, 09:19 PM
#80
The particles of the compressor wheel passed through the intercooler, and entered the intake manifold.
Then passed through into the head, and into the bores.
Some of the fragments dug into the tops of the pistons, whilst others went down the sides of the pistons and scratched the bores.
The head was full of debris, and as a resalt of that, all the valves suffered minor pitting, and a valve seat was damaged.
Also as the shaft snapped, I lost oil pressure and I assume debirs from the bearings went into the oil return pipe, and into the sump.
This contaminated the oil, and therefore I also suffered bearing damage to the bigend and main bearings.
I also have pictures of the insides of my engine when it was stripped down.
Then passed through into the head, and into the bores.
Some of the fragments dug into the tops of the pistons, whilst others went down the sides of the pistons and scratched the bores.
The head was full of debris, and as a resalt of that, all the valves suffered minor pitting, and a valve seat was damaged.
Also as the shaft snapped, I lost oil pressure and I assume debirs from the bearings went into the oil return pipe, and into the sump.
This contaminated the oil, and therefore I also suffered bearing damage to the bigend and main bearings.
I also have pictures of the insides of my engine when it was stripped down.
Sounds like an unlikely scenerio.
Compressor wheels don't turn into "particles" small enough to migrate through an engine when a shaft breaks, and they don't migrate through an intercooler core, unless you have no fins inside your intercooler. In addition, once the shaft breaks, there's no more boost to "drive" any metal fragments through the intercooler or the rest of the intake tract...
How do you know that your engine didn't fail first, and fed metal parts through the exhaust and into the turbo, rather than the other way around?
Nov 17, 2008, 12:24 AM
#81
Bits of turbo blades dont make it past the intercooler. It's just not going to happen with any kind of standard intercooler. I can't let that stand out there for people that dont know any better to believe. Turbo blades didn't mess up engine bearings either, ever, anywhere. Compressor blades didnt get past an intercooler, then the piston rings and contaminate your oil and cause an oil pump failure. That is just your engine coming apart sir.
I cant beleive anyone could beleive that an exploded turbocharger can ruin main or rod bearings.
The turbo shaft snapped and then you lost oil pressure. Ok. maybe the order was the other way around? The turbo has nothing to do with producing oil pressure, it does of course need oil pressure from the engine, and if the engine is coming apart the way described, well.. there is going to be all sorts of problems, including an exploded turbo.
I cant beleive anyone could beleive that an exploded turbocharger can ruin main or rod bearings.
The turbo shaft snapped and then you lost oil pressure. Ok. maybe the order was the other way around? The turbo has nothing to do with producing oil pressure, it does of course need oil pressure from the engine, and if the engine is coming apart the way described, well.. there is going to be all sorts of problems, including an exploded turbo.
I did not say bits of blade got past the piston rings, I said parts of the shaft or bearing broke up and entred the sump via the oil return pipe (this has a direct link to the sump).
Large pieces of blade, were retained by the intercooler (which I have stated was not stock) but as you can see, the smaller shredded pieces passed through the cooler and into the engine.
p.s Before anyone says the marks on the pistons and head are det marks, they are not as I had them inspected by 3 independant engine builders.
The marks are from where bits of debris had hit the pistons (some parts were still stuck to them, and had to be flaked off with a finger nail).
Here are some pictures of the insides of my engine after the turbo failiure.
Last edited by cossie1; Nov 17, 2008 at 12:28 AM.
Nov 17, 2008, 12:59 AM
#83
hey cossie, debris in the sump should pass the filter first
just fyi bud
for the folk that think blades cannot pass the intercooler are just blind
just fyi bud
for the folk that think blades cannot pass the intercooler are just blind
Last edited by leecavturbo; Nov 17, 2008 at 01:34 AM.
Nov 17, 2008, 01:23 AM
#84
Ok that is a fair point, about the oil filter, however the shaft breaking removes a restriction in the oil line, which will reduce oil pressure, as the oil way is now wide open in that respect, so the bearing damage could have been done that way instead.
Last edited by cossie1; Nov 17, 2008 at 01:35 AM.
Nov 17, 2008, 02:35 AM
#85
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I know of a man with an exploded Green from the UK, it is in the shop at the moment. The person bought the turbo in the UK from a guy that bought the turbo while he was in florida from a shop that apparently bought it from us. I cannot document the purchase, the dates, anything. It is totaly fubar, assploded, broken shaft and it blew while at a very very high shaft RPM, rang fine for a while according to the report. I quoted a reduced price for replacing the CHRA just as a jesture of goodwill. Try walking into Best Buy with a exploded laptop that you dont have any paperwork on and see how far you get.
I too am using an fp green but purchased through Turbo Dynamics in the UK. Mine is currently running fine. I have to say though that I am not impressed with the way you have handled the warranty claim for cossie1 and would hate to think that if mine goes the attitude would be the same.
After recently looking at the Evo Red results I will now be thinking twice before upgrading as the warranty seems useless. Maybe the UK market is a small proportion of your sales so you don't really care................
Nov 17, 2008, 04:10 AM
#86
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So what are we required not to run to ensure these stock based direct replacement turbos do not "assplode" on us.
1. Do not run a Stock airbox
2. Do not run a recirculating BOV
anymore ?
My 2nd FP Green is blowing air into my $8k forged engine and i'm getting kinda concerned.
Another concern is that if we are supposed to get the best from this turbo and make sure it is run with in the compressor map to stop it over speeding. Where would one find the exact compressor flow map for an FP green. There used to be mention of it on the FP website but the maps were not posted.
I'm kinda reluctant to have to spend $600 in the uk to get a turbo tach. That coupled to the price of an FP Green in the Uk would push up into the price of a GT3076R full Kit which would then negate the market for a 400whp bolt on.
Andy
1. Do not run a Stock airbox
2. Do not run a recirculating BOV
anymore ?
My 2nd FP Green is blowing air into my $8k forged engine and i'm getting kinda concerned.
Another concern is that if we are supposed to get the best from this turbo and make sure it is run with in the compressor map to stop it over speeding. Where would one find the exact compressor flow map for an FP green. There used to be mention of it on the FP website but the maps were not posted.
I'm kinda reluctant to have to spend $600 in the uk to get a turbo tach. That coupled to the price of an FP Green in the Uk would push up into the price of a GT3076R full Kit which would then negate the market for a 400whp bolt on.
Andy
Nov 17, 2008, 05:21 AM
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Bits of turbo blades dont make it past the intercooler. It's just not going to happen with any kind of standard intercooler. I can't let that stand out there for people that dont know any better to believe. Turbo blades didn't mess up engine bearings either, ever, anywhere. Compressor blades didnt get past an intercooler, then the piston rings and contaminate your oil and cause an oil pump failure. That is just your engine coming apart sir.
I cant beleive anyone could beleive that an exploded turbocharger can ruin main or rod bearings.
The turbo shaft snapped and then you lost oil pressure. Ok. maybe the order was the other way around? The turbo has nothing to do with producing oil pressure, it does of course need oil pressure from the engine, and if the engine is coming apart the way described, well.. there is going to be all sorts of problems, including an exploded turbo.
I cant beleive anyone could beleive that an exploded turbocharger can ruin main or rod bearings.
The turbo shaft snapped and then you lost oil pressure. Ok. maybe the order was the other way around? The turbo has nothing to do with producing oil pressure, it does of course need oil pressure from the engine, and if the engine is coming apart the way described, well.. there is going to be all sorts of problems, including an exploded turbo.
The particles of the compressor wheel passed through the intercooler, and entered the intake manifold.
Then passed through into the head, and into the bores.
Some of the fragments dug into the tops of the pistons, whilst others went down the sides of the pistons and scratched the bores.
The head was full of debris, and as a resalt of that, all the valves suffered minor pitting, and a valve seat was damaged.
Also as the shaft snapped, I lost oil pressure and I assume debirs from the bearings went into the oil return pipe, and into the sump.
This contaminated the oil, and therefore I also suffered bearing damage to the bigend and main bearings.
I also have pictures of the insides of my engine when it was stripped down.
Then passed through into the head, and into the bores.
Some of the fragments dug into the tops of the pistons, whilst others went down the sides of the pistons and scratched the bores.
The head was full of debris, and as a resalt of that, all the valves suffered minor pitting, and a valve seat was damaged.
Also as the shaft snapped, I lost oil pressure and I assume debirs from the bearings went into the oil return pipe, and into the sump.
This contaminated the oil, and therefore I also suffered bearing damage to the bigend and main bearings.
I also have pictures of the insides of my engine when it was stripped down.
Why not take the intercooler, break it apart somehow, and show us the fragments?
P.S. To make it easier on you, the compressor side of the intercooler would be filled with fragments, so you would only have to cut off that end tank
Last edited by broddey; Nov 17, 2008 at 05:31 AM.
Nov 17, 2008, 05:32 AM
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I can't believe that people are SERIOUSLY saying that parts of a compressor wheel can't get through an intercooler!
We aren't talking a WHOLE compressor wheel here FFS...
It's appauling that a manufacturer is trying to make a customer look stupid with "facts" that just aren't true.
I'll ignore the oil pressure issue as I've not seen the engine being discussed, but I can't ignore the Intercooler comment.
I myself have SEEN with my own 2 eyes parts of a compressor wheel end up in an engine after passing through an intercooler.
Remember that they are ejected from the comp wheel at a crazy high speed, and under pressure. Doesn't take a brain surgeon or Einstein to work out that they will find there way through.
I expect there will be small bits of compressor everywhere, from inside the compressor housing through to inside the turbine housing, and everywhere in between (IC, intake piping, back of throttle butterfly, etc.
Cheers
Grant
We aren't talking a WHOLE compressor wheel here FFS...
It's appauling that a manufacturer is trying to make a customer look stupid with "facts" that just aren't true.
I'll ignore the oil pressure issue as I've not seen the engine being discussed, but I can't ignore the Intercooler comment.
I myself have SEEN with my own 2 eyes parts of a compressor wheel end up in an engine after passing through an intercooler.
Remember that they are ejected from the comp wheel at a crazy high speed, and under pressure. Doesn't take a brain surgeon or Einstein to work out that they will find there way through.
I expect there will be small bits of compressor everywhere, from inside the compressor housing through to inside the turbine housing, and everywhere in between (IC, intake piping, back of throttle butterfly, etc.
Cheers
Grant
Nov 17, 2008, 05:35 AM
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With regards to this comment
The factory airbox and an unidentified boost leak are the 2 main casues of overspeeding the turbo and subsequent failure. THe factory airbox just cannot let the turbo inhale, it will overspped trying to suck air thru this straw. The boost leak failure mode is more obvious, if you are trying to get lots of boost, and supply the leak air on top of that, then you are going to end up with way too much RPM. Running at 160kpm is tolerable and not a problem, but hitting 180+krpm repeatedly as you draw agaisnt the stock airbox or feed a boost leak will kill a turbo.
Doing a static boost check doesnt always show a leaking BOV. The BOV can pass a static leak test and still leak lots of air under use. Under actual operatopn there is vaccuum, sometimes several psi of vacuum pulling the BOV open in a recirculating BOV config. This pulling force works with the boost pressures pushing forced from the UICP to crack the valve open. It can do this in a very repeatable manner and thusly go unnoticed and simply "tuned around" without a turbo tach you may never even know it is occuring.
Can you then explain this quoted from your very own test. http://store.forcedperformance.net/m...een=FPEvoGreen
There is even a photo of the car with the stock airbox fitted.
When i recieved my first FP Green via Turbo Dynamics (UK) there was no paper work advice sheet telling me i could not run it on a Stock Airbox and BOV.
I know it may seem like i have a bee in my bonnet about this but I'm more concerned over the Second FP Green sitting in my car as i do not want another £1800 ($2700)replacement bill.
And i'm 100% certain i'm not alone in that view!!
Kind regards
Andy
The factory airbox and an unidentified boost leak are the 2 main casues of overspeeding the turbo and subsequent failure. THe factory airbox just cannot let the turbo inhale, it will overspped trying to suck air thru this straw. The boost leak failure mode is more obvious, if you are trying to get lots of boost, and supply the leak air on top of that, then you are going to end up with way too much RPM. Running at 160kpm is tolerable and not a problem, but hitting 180+krpm repeatedly as you draw agaisnt the stock airbox or feed a boost leak will kill a turbo.
Doing a static boost check doesnt always show a leaking BOV. The BOV can pass a static leak test and still leak lots of air under use. Under actual operatopn there is vaccuum, sometimes several psi of vacuum pulling the BOV open in a recirculating BOV config. This pulling force works with the boost pressures pushing forced from the UICP to crack the valve open. It can do this in a very repeatable manner and thusly go unnoticed and simply "tuned around" without a turbo tach you may never even know it is occuring.
A basic test car was prepared to demonstrate the characteristics of the turbocharger. Turbocharger boost response was carefully measured. The test car was a 2006 EVO9 RS with about 2500miles on it at the time of the tests. The car was only very mildly modified from it’s stock configuration.
The car was modified with the EVOGreen Model turbocharger and a larger 3” DP cat test pipe and O2 housing. An ECUTek reflash was used for tuning and a Greddy Emanage was used for data acquisition. No other modifications or changes were made to the car. Everything else remained as supplied by Mitsubishi.
The car was modified with the EVOGreen Model turbocharger and a larger 3” DP cat test pipe and O2 housing. An ECUTek reflash was used for tuning and a Greddy Emanage was used for data acquisition. No other modifications or changes were made to the car. Everything else remained as supplied by Mitsubishi.
When i recieved my first FP Green via Turbo Dynamics (UK) there was no paper work advice sheet telling me i could not run it on a Stock Airbox and BOV.
I know it may seem like i have a bee in my bonnet about this but I'm more concerned over the Second FP Green sitting in my car as i do not want another £1800 ($2700)replacement bill.
And i'm 100% certain i'm not alone in that view!!
Kind regards
Andy