cossie1

Sorry please explain how "bits of bearing" find there way out of the sump, and end up ontop of my pistons ??

Why do I need to "break apart" the intercooler (oh and breaking it apart would create particles on it's own) when you can see the fragments in the pictures I posted up ??

broddey

iTrader: (5)

Intercoolers are aluminum. Take some metal shears or deadbolt cutters and hack off the end tanks. I'm willing to wager that it would be very similar to cutting up a coke can. The metal just curls around and stays together.

Secondly, intercoolers look like giant air filters. Judging by the shear width of the core, it is not plausible that fragments could simply "pass through." Please explain further.

CO_VR4

iTrader: (83)

Looks like a whole bunch of new faces from the UK joining this thread to give us their opinions on intercooler internal aerodynamics and engine failure analysis... Crcain, still want us to believe that you started this thread with no motives? Right....

I remain unconvinced by the assumptions made about the cause of the failure and what happened first. The compressor wheel is shown intact (no fins totally broken off) -- the damage shown was caused when the wheel impacted the housing after the shaft broke. Where are the parts missing to account for all the claimed particles passing through the intercooler? (Which I also find hard to believe, unless you have no fins in your intercooler core) Where are pics of the shaft?

Two pictures of the turbo, which is the topic here, and 20 pictures of your engine, which yield nothing of value for this discussion.

It's more likely that you damaged the motor, which then damaged the turbo by contaminated oil supply, not the other way around.

You continue to speculate about internal bearing damage, and when someone points out the error of your assumptions, you just disavow your last and start another (post #72 compared 84). Now the assumption is "parts of the shaft went down the drain"? Got any pictures of that?

broddey

iTrader: (5)

Its really unfortunate when people have issues like this, and make accusations about a certain product without any supporting evidence. I can see how this could get really old for a vendor.

Seeing is believing. Post some pics of something other than the engine and the compressor wheel to silence the skeptics.

supersal

iTrader: (1)

Think of a drill bit or a dremel tool coming into contact with a solid piece of aluminium at over +160,000rpm alluminium bits & dust is produced thats the equivalent of putting a hand full of sand into you motor after the airfilter...

.

crcain

As much as it is interesting to talk about whether metal would get through an intercooler... let's keep the thread about people posting their experiences about FP and not arguing debating about them.

From my perspective, there has not really been any significant number of people saying "yeah my **** broke too" so I have a high level of confidence in FP at this point considering the number of FP customers on this board.

Andy_8

Hi. I my friend am not a new member. I just don't post much on here. (it is an awesome forum by the way and i spend many many hours reading here) In the uk we have now had 7+ failures of the FP Evo Green turbo. There are not as many FP EVO Greens running here as in the US. My 1st FP EVO Green failed about 8 months ago and id did'nt make too much of a fuss over it as well... **** happens. However there seem to be "too many" failures over here in the Uk now to simply ignore it. Hence why we "newbies" from the uk are trying to get to the bottom of the issue.

There are some inconstancies in what FP are quoting relating to how an FP EVO Green should be run. Yet it is advertised by themselves as a Stock replacement 400whp (Wheels to us are the rotating metal bits covered in black rubber) turbo. FP themselves have conducted a test using Stock Air box and BOV with "amazing results" and is advertised as such on their website. Yet when one of their turbos fails they state that it should not be run on a standard airbox or BOV as these items will cause it to over speed and die.

There are now some very concerned people running these turbos in the UK that need some reassurance that the product they purchased will operate as advertised.

It's not just about one particular case it's about several.

Regards

Andy

broddey

iTrader: (5)

You do raise a valid point, and they should modify the website accordingly.

How many failures are associated with a stock airbox?

MR Turco

iTrader: (16)

i am confused, if metal was in the oil going through the turbo then returned into the oil pan wouldnt it be filtered through the oil filter?

Youngsyr

iTrader: (1)

It's a bit late for that now, what with several FP Green owners in the UK having shelled out $thousands on the back of the advertising and then witnessing their turbo sh*t itself, only to have FP seemingly blame it on the stock airbox and refuse their warranty claim.

Andy_8

Well with out researching further i can only confirm that my first one was running on the Stock engine, stock airbox and intake with stock Bov. I was their when it was mapped on the Rolling road and i even my self took the top off of the stock airbox including the ralliart panel filter to see what difference it made with out touching the boost controller (E-boost2). The difference was around +0.1 bar (+1.45psi) from around 4500rpm to 7500rpm. With a targeted 1.8bar (26psi) tailing off to 1.6bar (23psi) at 7500rpm.

My 2nd FP Green is currently running on stock airbox modified with a cut out section opposite the front side wing to increase flow over the ralliart panel filter and with a Forge Bov. That said it's also now on a 2.2 stroker and running 2.0 bar (29psi) at 3600rpm tailing off to 1.8 Bar (26psi) at 7500rpm. Which if in fact a TO4E 50 trim compressor wheel is used in the FP Evo Green should still keep in within efficiency parameters according to the compressor map of a TO4E 50 trim.

Another thing is though that some people over here are running at up to 2.3 bar on 2.0ltrs and even 2.3 strokers mid range with no issues. So either their may have been a faulty batch some where along the line or it's set up dependent.

One other point to note is that in the uk we tend to only run pump fuel (Shell 93 us equivalent) on these types of turbos with no additives. There are plenty running fine but with more failures being reported recently we need to find out what is behind it to avert a mass exodus from what is billed as very efficient route to a fast street setup.

Also with the FP Evo Red just starting to hit the UK market it's a good idea to get some clarification on how these stock modifed FP turbos should be set up to run.

I personally think the FP Green is a very good option for a fast responsive street car in the 450 flywheel bhp range on 93oct pump fuel (that's why i'm on my 2nd) and why they have been so popular over here.

Andy

ForcedPerformance

iTrader: (6)

I think it is time to breathe some sanity into all this. There is no intention or need to turn customers into enemies of FP. It isnt a problem for us to help people that have turbo failures, we help people all the time. Getting accused of destroying someones engine sort of puts you off a bit however.

I invite anyone with troubles to write me directly so that their issues can be resolved. The UK guy got behind the eight ball, his turbo should have gone to TD in the UK, they handle the support for our turbos there. Thru a somewhat odd set of circumstances Performance Part s Online happened to have a rep in Florida who happend to pickup a turbo from Titan and take it to the UK and sell it to this gentleman. I suppose it was a mistake to get distracted by the fact that we should not have been handling the service on the turbo in the first place, but Performance Part Online in the UK is not an authorized dealer and this started the whole mess off on the wrong foot. When a motor disentegrates, everyone gets hot under the collar, I am sure the engine builder (who is not getting his butt reamed for this somehow) is pointing fingers in all sorts of directions. That turbo blew big and it blew fast. Whatever possibly fell down the drain pipe or came out of the compressor outlet didnt have a whole lot of time to spread thru your oil system like your pictures show. I can't tell you what happened to your engine. I know arguing about how an engine fails is sort of like urinating in a tornado, but I guess if you have to go you have to go right?

Airboxes: You may run sotck airboxes on the Green, I do not recommend it for the Red. If you do run the stock airbox, keep and eye on how low the ambient pressure sensor goes, it is in the factory air meter. Seeing it dip signifcantly can indicate a restriction that should be dealt with.

UK: Buy your turbos from TD, get them serviced at TD. Ask for Matt. Don't get your turbos from other sources.

Andy_8

Unfortunately it's being reported by a few people who have delt with Turbo Dynamics in the UK that TD are not providing the same level of customer service that you provide to your US customers.

Andy

Erik@MIL.SPEC

iTrader: (94)

If that is a concern, I would think that that is an issue better remedied by calling FP rather than making a post in a thread about it.

The first option draws attention to the issue. The second option draws attention to the issue while creating a whole bunch of other needless drama.

tkklemann

iTrader: (6)

Something looks very funny with the blades in the pictures that were posted. It looks as though something was ingested by the turbo because if you look at the way the fins are bent, not broken off (ie. clean fracture), it makes it seem as though something fell into the intake track and was stopped by the compressor turbine, and just sat there tearing eachother apart.

With the way those fins are bent & broken I would have very serious doubt on this turbo simply "assploding". If you look at where the damage begins on the fins in relation to where the center of the shaft is, it makes a concentric circle. (The shaft is slightly off due to the broken shaft though) Something was ingested, no doubt, and that's probably what ended up in your motor after being run through a 160,000rpm blender.

Hopefully FP can chime in on my thoughts with his experience.